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Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

pocketgamer.biz

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Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#201

Post by 8ytecoder »

crayboff wrote: post #159
OskarS wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the full context does him any favors. The way he talks of gamedevs that are not engaging in predatory behaviour ("beautiful and pure, brilliant people") is incredibly condescending. Like, "yes children, once you grow up you'll realize how foolish your idealism has been and you'll stuff your game full of gems you can overpay for!". These are his customers he's talking about. And later talking about "comp…

I haven't seen much of what he says in general so I don't know if he has a really antagonistic trend in his he talks. I interpreted what he said to mean "I have respect for devs who approach this for just the art, but if you don't consider monetization into your design from the beginning, you are self sabotaging your chance at business success". He just said that with less politically correct talk, which is easily ta…

It doesn’t have to be “politically” correct to simply not call your critics idiots. Long long before PC was a term, it was never acceptable to use this kinda language in a business/work context. Not to mention the utter disrespect in calling someone (not the idea or criticism) a ‘fucking idiot’. Even worse when that someone is your customer.

Being decent and being respectful has nothing to do with politics. Strong language betrays the emotional state of the speaker than any valuable idea. All this conveyed to me was that he has very thin skin and easily triggered with no emotional maturity to rationally push back.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#202

Post by _gabe_ »

nemothekid wrote: post #98
f17 wrote: post #85

Counterpoint: Stardew Valley. No IAP bullshit, no lootbox chicanery... and yet I doubt its creator is hurting, financially speaking. Of course, we're talking about an outlier here. Excellence doesn't guarantee anything, but it is a strategy that sometimes works. The irony is that you'd expect the big publishers to be the ones willing to take on risks and put out products that are excellent but maybe not financial blo…

When people say Stardew Valley is a counterpoint, are they saying publishers shouldn't pay developers at all until their game is a massive success? ConcernedApe spent 4 years working on the game on a pretty much ramen salary and then hit a success; I vastly prefer whatever dysfunction we have now, to publishers not paying any salaries unless you come with a 1-in-100 success. Games are a hit driven business; so if you…

> Stardew Valley sold over 400,000 copies across Steam and GOG.com in two weeks,[13][72][73] and more than a million within two months.

Stardew Valley sold at $14.99. At 1 million copies in two months that's around 15 million gross, which works out to a 3.75 million payout for each of those 4 years of Ramen living. I would happily live off Ramen for a payout like that, and I think this is usually what people are talking about when they say this game is a counterpoint.

No, this doesn't mean you don't pay developers if you're a giant company. But it does mean that you don't need to put in MTX or AAA quality to have a successful game. 3.75 million a year could support 37 developers at 100k a year. Which means you could lead a small team to mild success instead of busting out 100s of developers for a 100 million budget game.

[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stardew_Valley#:~:text=Senso....

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#203

Post by makeitdouble »

morley wrote: post #25

The full quote for context: > Ferrari and some of the other high-end car manufacturers still use clay and carving knives. It’s a very small portion of the gaming industry that works that way, and some of these people are my favourite people in the world to fight with – they’re the most beautiful and pure, brilliant people. They’re also some of the biggest fucking idiots. Their CEO is certainly not calling everyone an…

> And personally, I greatly prefer this sort of frank talk to run-of-the-mill generic PR speak that usually comes from CEO interviews.

I think a lot more CEO talk frankly than we give credit for. The difference would be that many of them are polite and considerate, and their baseline isn’t abrasive language. NPR had an interview of toy maker about Prime day, and it was pretty frank and natural, with pretty emotional topics, without calling anyone fucking idiots.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#204

Post by icu »

revolvingocelot wrote: post #56
jl6 wrote: post #23

Did you know there is a market for pre-war steel? This is steel manufactured before 1945 that is uncontaminated by radionuclides: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel There will soon be a market for pre-microtransactions games. Also: I used to hate on the casino industry for using the term “gaming” to euphemistically refer to gambling, but now they’re not so different so I’ll let them have that one.

>There will soon be a market for pre-microtransactions games I'd argue there already is -- what's currently called "indies". IMO the greater threat is the "compulsion loop". Plenty of excellent games, both historical and modern, are content to challenge the player without much in the way of enticement. But in this late year, we're having to contend with things like Vampire Survivors [0], which, while being microtrans…

Thank you for explaining my recent videogame behaviour. I think the last AAAs I played through was Ghost of Tsushima and the Demon Souls remake. I feel less inclined to play AAAs and I find myself gravitating to Gris, Sable, Untitled Goose Game and Trek to Yomi to name a few.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#205

Post by lovich »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #117
placatedmayhem wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having read the full context on the original article on pocketgamer.biz, he is, in fact, making the assertion in this post title -- that game creatives that aren't working with sales and publicity teams from the beginning to build in monetization are idiots. Original article: https://www.pocketgamer.biz/interview/79190/unity-ironsource... Edit: I say this because I don't understand how it's not clear that he's drivin…

The confusion is over what is meant by 'monetisation' here. Is is "making sure the game is at all commercially viable so I can afford to keep myself alive and well fed", or "making sure that every drop of money is juiced from the customer". Without a clear statement that he meant the latter, I decided to give him some benefit of doubt unless I have additional context (I never heard of the guy before).

I think using the term “compulsion loop” when taking about monetization is a pretty clear sign that he means the latter.

Making a game that can pay for itself doesn’t really need to trick people into it. Look at stardew valley for instance, or factorio, or minecraft

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#206

Post by NohatCoder »

hmmazoids wrote: post #136
OskarS wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the full context does him any favors. The way he talks of gamedevs that are not engaging in predatory behaviour ("beautiful and pure, brilliant people") is incredibly condescending. Like, "yes children, once you grow up you'll realize how foolish your idealism has been and you'll stuff your game full of gems you can overpay for!". These are his customers he's talking about. And later talking about "comp…

> "yes children, once you grow up you'll realize how foolish your idealism has been and you'll stuff your game full of gems you can overpay for!" As someone who has worked at a start up that really took off, didn't truly think out monetization and prayed at some point the free users would be willing to play assuming we gave the right features and benefits, I would say you're incredibly naïve. So in retrospect, this i…

Yes, if you go freemium, you better have the mium part figured out. But this insult clearly also extend to anyone who simply sell their games.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#207

Post by dylan604 »

pcurve wrote: post #146
soneca wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”And personally, I greatly prefer this sort of frank talk to run-of-the-mill generic PR speak that usually comes from CEO interviews.” There is this desire for “authenticity” in the current zeitgeist. You see it everywhere, but mostly in how the crowds love people like Trump and Elon Musk. I think this is an understandable reaction from being lied a lot by polite PR-trained people. Politicians and businesspeople mo…

Those are very fair points, and I agree. For me personally, authenticity is more about choosing to speak vs. laying low on certain topics. Sure you can still lie when you speak to it, but at least you're being truthful on your desire to express.

You can lie..but at least you're being truthful?!?!

Care to enlighten me on how to achieve this?

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#208

Post by jayd16 »

ljw1001 wrote: post #196
snek_case wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't worked with Unity, but I'm assuming they get a percentage of the money spent through microtransactions and monetized content? They're essentially a platform, kind of like the Apple app store, and taking a cut? In that case, it's obvious why the Unity CEO would say this. He has a financial incentive to get game developers to try and milk gamers for profit (because Unity gets a cut). I think that this could u…

It’s obvious why he would think it; it’s less obvious why he would say it.

Everything is obvious when you don't look up the underlying facts that lead to the conclusion, I guess.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#210

Post by phendrenad2 »

jl6 wrote: post #23

Did you know there is a market for pre-war steel? This is steel manufactured before 1945 that is uncontaminated by radionuclides: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel There will soon be a market for pre-microtransactions games. Also: I used to hate on the casino industry for using the term “gaming” to euphemistically refer to gambling, but now they’re not so different so I’ll let them have that one.

But if there's a market for "pre" microtransaction games, then wouldn't there be a market for "non" microtransaction games? And couldn't you just... make those? It's not like microtransactions are literally dispersed in the atmosphere.
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