Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

pocketgamer.biz

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 370 posts

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#291

Post by wahnfrieden »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #251
wahnfrieden wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

games market was much smaller back then. why are you certain that the market has solutions for growing the game industry beyond its current size without these tactics. and why resign to minor reforms of a system you don’t like the results of vv bingo

Please don't completely edit your comment after someone replies, it makes it hard to keep track of the discussion. I am far from advocating for a minor reform. MTX, subscriptions, and basically anything designed to extract money from a customer's pocket after a one-time initial purchase should be very heavily restricted. "Compulsion loops" and dirty tricks used to create artificial addiction should be made outright i…

>Short of establishing a parallel system of funding video game development (such as patronage), that's all we can do.

exactly (tho I wouldn't say in parallel)

>Please don't completely edit your comment after someone replies, it makes it hard to keep track of the discussion.

HN disables replies, or I expanded what I wrote as you were writing yours - I'll just disengage instead, bye

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#292

Post by majkinetor »

rowanG077 wrote: post #174
crayboff wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen much of what he says in general so I don't know if he has a really antagonistic trend in his he talks. I interpreted what he said to mean "I have respect for devs who approach this for just the art, but if you don't consider monetization into your design from the beginning, you are self sabotaging your chance at business success". He just said that with less politically correct talk, which is easily ta…

There should be no monetization design in a video game. The design should be make your game good so people will buy it. How ridiculous would it be for other forms of art to have "monetization design". A chef that styles their dishes in such a way that there clearly is a gap in the dish which should contain a nice piece of steak or something else. When you are eating the dish the waiter comes with that piece in hand a…

Hmmm...

Is that really so?

Sounds like pizzas where you can put things on it for additional price. Or when you buy house or car and pay extra for each little thing.

I agree that in modern games its way more intusive then it needs to be.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#293

Post by noobermin »

MrYellowP wrote: post #288
noobermin wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Less politically correct"? He called his own customers "fucking idiots" for not liking what he's selling. It reminds me of impotent men who blame feminism for their lack of a sex life, it's ridiculous. Perhaps you meant "irreverent," which is a more apt description.

What's ridiculous here is what it reminds you of, which makes you look worse than him. He's just open and honest about his thoughts and feelings about some people, but you , on the other hand, are definitely, at least , weird.

The analogy is people who blame other's reactions to them on the people themselves instead seriously contending with the claim and at least looking inward.

Anyway, that was a bit off my point which I admit. The main point I am making is "irreverent" is more descriptive than "politically incorrect." Politically incorrect would be something not culturally sensitive or offensive to people with certain politics. He didn't make that sort of gesture, he just was crude about his own customers which is mean sure but also pretty unwise just from a PR perspective.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#294

Post by rowanG077 »

majkinetor wrote: post #292
rowanG077 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be no monetization design in a video game. The design should be make your game good so people will buy it. How ridiculous would it be for other forms of art to have "monetization design". A chef that styles their dishes in such a way that there clearly is a gap in the dish which should contain a nice piece of steak or something else. When you are eating the dish the waiter comes with that piece in hand a…

Hmmm... Is that really so? Sounds like pizzas where you can put things on it for additional price. Or when you buy house or car and pay extra for each little thing. I agree that in modern games its way more intusive then it needs to be.

No it's not comparable to that. Adding things to the pizza/car is a decision you make prior to using/consuming the good. I have no problem with games doing the equivalent. E.g. you purchase any DLC or costumes or cosmetics or whatever BEFORE starting the game. The evil part is making monetization part of the game. I would also find it evil for a car to suggest "Buy the vacation increased range package for 49.99$ and have 50 extra kilometers of range for the next 2 weeks", while you car battery is at 10%.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#295

Post by scotty79 »

BbzzbB wrote: post #282
sosodev wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why aren't shorter games worth the money? I really dislike the way modern games inflate their length because it's usually tons of padding.

When a game dev says "vast area and lots of things to do", I hear "lots of walking across empty lands with sporadic fetch quests".

I have no idea why so many games involve walking. I'd have thought it gotten old by now.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#296

Post by s1artibartfast »

soneca wrote: post #110
morley wrote: post #25

The full quote for context: > Ferrari and some of the other high-end car manufacturers still use clay and carving knives. It’s a very small portion of the gaming industry that works that way, and some of these people are my favourite people in the world to fight with – they’re the most beautiful and pure, brilliant people. They’re also some of the biggest fucking idiots. Their CEO is certainly not calling everyone an…

> ”And personally, I greatly prefer this sort of frank talk to run-of-the-mill generic PR speak that usually comes from CEO interviews.” There is this desire for “authenticity” in the current zeitgeist. You see it everywhere, but mostly in how the crowds love people like Trump and Elon Musk. I think this is an understandable reaction from being lied a lot by polite PR-trained people. Politicians and businesspeople mo…

I think there is another angle to it beyond Truth vs lying.

There is also content and clarity. A lot of generic PR speak is devoid of actual content, it doesn't mean anything.

In this example, he is making a clear claim, like it or not. There is no ambiguity or double speak.

I think a lot of people are willing to tolerate disagreement and even lying if it is done in simple language opposed to evasion.

If you disagree, you know it. If they are lying, it is also clear because their statements aren't stuffed full of weasel words.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#297

Post by wahnfrieden »

jquery wrote: post #166
janoc wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that those AAA games people demand are not possible to make without those big bucks. People demand to be paid and that work does cost a ton of money. So careful what you ask for. Even an indie developer needs to pay bills and put food on the table somehow. Very very few game developers got rich developing games, in most of the studios burnout and attrition because of the extremely toxic work environmen…

The last call of duty game I played charged me $60 up front and then was largely free from all future costs, except some add-on dlc I chose to buy later. MTX was there but only as cosmetic items. This state of things was fine. However they eventually added overpowered weapons that could only be unlocked via expensive rng loot boxes and that's when I stopped playing.

that cod was one of their highest revenue microtransaction platforms to date

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#298

Post by revolvingocelot »

djur wrote: post #122
revolvingocelot wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There will soon be a market for pre-microtransactions games I'd argue there already is -- what's currently called "indies". IMO the greater threat is the "compulsion loop". Plenty of excellent games, both historical and modern, are content to challenge the player without much in the way of enticement. But in this late year, we're having to contend with things like Vampire Survivors [0], which, while being microtrans…

This is just arcade design. Vampire Survivors might have a more bombastic way of presenting random drops, but otherwise it's not meaningfully different from something like Robotron or Gauntlet.

Well, why do we want to go back there? The demise of the arcade, brought on by computers and consoles growing inexpensive and powerful, allowed videogaming to become an art form (eg Braid, FEZ, To The Moon, etc, are artistic experiences if a film ever was, cannot be replicated on other forms of media, and cannot easily be monetized into an arcade machine). Returning to an age where electronic entertainment needs you to feed it money every once in a while, regardless of how much or why, seems like a step backward.

More concisely, why excuse shittiness with historical precedent?

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#299

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

jayd16 wrote: post #187
snek_case wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't worked with Unity, but I'm assuming they get a percentage of the money spent through microtransactions and monetized content? They're essentially a platform, kind of like the Apple app store, and taking a cut? In that case, it's obvious why the Unity CEO would say this. He has a financial incentive to get game developers to try and milk gamers for profit (because Unity gets a cut). I think that this could u…

They don't get a cut. It's a per seat model. Everyone seems to think Unity has some incentive to push IAP and they don't.

Huh? I'm pretty sure that unity act as an ad server, and take some money from it. As do iron source, for that matter.

Honestly, this was always gonna happen post iOS tracking changes. Less data means worse ads and no measurement without substantial first party scale, which will tend to lead towards consolidation.

Edit: in fact, if you look at their S1, you can see that they make money from subscriptions to their game creation tools and also from operate services, to help customers monetize and increase LTV. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1810806/000119312520...

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#300

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

philistine wrote: post #260
jayd16 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't get a cut. It's a per seat model. Everyone seems to think Unity has some incentive to push IAP and they don't.

Reading the full quote, I would not bet on Unity even having an option of a per-seat subscription in five years. They're moving to capture a cut of every microtransaction, looking at how they speak and the acquisitions they're making.

Nah, it's just that ads are a much better growth business, and gaming ads are super profitable.

Growth is generally king for tech companies.

Post reply on HN