Live data from Hacker News

Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

pocketgamer.biz

221–230 of 370 posts

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#221
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two minutes would be a holdover from 1980's arcade games. That's about how long you'd play on a quarter. Maybe 3 minutes.

My pinball machines actually track average ball times in the audits. It’s a KPI for operators. Machine setups will be changed to increase difficulty if necessary.

Have any pinball machines ever been designed to change the difficulty during game play. Some sort of algo to make the bumpers less bumpery, restrict the movement of the flippers, adjust the angles of things, etc?

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#222
post #23

Did you know there is a market for pre-war steel? This is steel manufactured before 1945 that is uncontaminated by radionuclides: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel There will soon be a market for pre-microtransactions games. Also: I used to hate on the casino industry for using the term “gaming” to euphemistically refer to gambling, but now they’re not so different so I’ll let them have that one.

I think Apple Arcade and similar are already doing this. Games on there are free from microtransactions/ads.

...besides the recurring nominal fee that you have to pay to retain "ownership" of a title? I think you misunderstand what "free from microtransactions" means.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having read the full context on the original article on pocketgamer.biz, he is, in fact, making the assertion in this post title -- that game creatives that aren't working with sales and publicity teams from the beginning to build in monetization are idiots. Original article: https://www.pocketgamer.biz/interview/79190/unity-ironsource... Edit: I say this because I don't understand how it's not clear that he's drivin…

The confusion is over what is meant by 'monetisation' here. Is is "making sure the game is at all commercially viable so I can afford to keep myself alive and well fed", or "making sure that every drop of money is juiced from the customer". Without a clear statement that he meant the latter, I decided to give him some benefit of doubt unless I have additional context (I never heard of the guy before).

>Is is "making sure the game is at all commercially viable so I can afford to keep myself alive and well fed", or "making sure that every drop of money is juiced from the customer".

yes, because teams typically undertake complex, expensive, and difficult projects for charity with no intention of being paid or making any financial gain

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#224

> “I’ve seen great games fail because they tuned their compulsion loop to two minutes when it should have been an hour. A 'compulsion loop' sounds bad to me, I'd never heard the term before. Although if I try to take a step back I suppose this term could be used to describe any game and not just one of the lootbox-mania or idle games. However, the wikipedia article [1] states: > A core or compulsion loop is any repet…

Compulsion loop does sound rather dystopian and "attention-hacking" but it's interesting that he says "two minutes when it should have been an hour," instead of the other way around. An hour long compulsion loop sounds like it could be an immersive experience. That said, I'm not hearing nice things about IronSource and it sounds like maybe there's better ways to get user feedback than the particular implementations t…

I wonder if there is a point that a game or other experience can become "predatory" solely focusing on the time someone spends on it regardless of monetization. To my own mind, there are many games that I can't put down for hours, sometimes missing out on sleep entirely for days. But the capitalistic part doesn't apply to me since I never play games with in-game monetization. Still, a lot of my time is sucked away by those activities (sometimes >18 hours a day), and I sometimes have to stop myself and question my priorities.

As an example, Minecraft is only a $20 one-time purchase, but free and/or open source mods made by people who are motivated by fun instead of profit have created a staggering amount of content that happens to be really addictive to someone like me. For the $20 I got the equivalent of years of content and novelty that I can never hope to fully explore.

I wonder if any given computer program that's given a colossal amount of development resources thrown behind it will ultimately come somewhere close to irresistible, and would suck away various parts of our less interesting hopes and dreams regardless of how much monetary currency the creator is expecting the user to pay. There just happens to be a motive to tack on some extra profit if the game is pseudo-irresistable, where all that time would have been "wasted" on someone's freeloading video game addiction instead. It makes me wonder if what is known as "predatory" is just a pathological explosion of what someone thinks of as a successful accomplishment (my "any given side project could one day addict us all" theory).

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#225
post #157

Frank Stephenson who designed the Ferrari F430, some BMWs and the good looking Mini from 2004, has a youtube channel. He sticks to pen and paper because computers lock him in too early in the design process. I don't get what Mr Riccitiello is on about. Clay is a great way to sketch car ideas. Mike Morhaime of Blizzard fame sees indie games as a space where the small guys can try out games that have never been made be…

> What is the unity CEO pushing for? Cookie cutter games? Does Unity take a cut of any microtransactions run through their ecosystem?

Nope, licenses are paid up-front and per-seat. I think they optionally had a free tier where you could pay nothing except a royalty on your overall earnings, but I don't think that exists anymore (and even if it did, it always made sense to just buy the licenses). Broadly speaking, though, no. Unity does not offer any payment services that he would directly/indirectly benefit from. This just seems like a bizarre offhand attack at his customerbase.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#226
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The confusion is over what is meant by 'monetisation' here. Is is "making sure the game is at all commercially viable so I can afford to keep myself alive and well fed", or "making sure that every drop of money is juiced from the customer". Without a clear statement that he meant the latter, I decided to give him some benefit of doubt unless I have additional context (I never heard of the guy before).

I think using the term “compulsion loop” when taking about monetization is a pretty clear sign that he means the latter. Making a game that can pay for itself doesn’t really need to trick people into it. Look at stardew valley for instance, or factorio, or minecraft

Sad panda, that Microsoft is doing their damnedest to shift Minecraft out of this category.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#227

> “I’ve seen great games fail because they tuned their compulsion loop to two minutes when it should have been an hour. A 'compulsion loop' sounds bad to me, I'd never heard the term before. Although if I try to take a step back I suppose this term could be used to describe any game and not just one of the lootbox-mania or idle games. However, the wikipedia article [1] states: > A core or compulsion loop is any repet…

For more information on the Skinner Box theory and how it is applied to exploit human psychology for monetization purposes:

https://levelskip.com/how-to/Skinners-Box-and-Video-Games

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#228
Making games is both an Art and a Business, and it always has been this way, but the F2P model, especially on mobile, tends to put heavy constraints on the game structure, transforming it into a time sink, engineered to keep you inside for as long as possible. (what they call Engagement and Game As A Service)

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen much of what he says in general so I don't know if he has a really antagonistic trend in his he talks. I interpreted what he said to mean "I have respect for devs who approach this for just the art, but if you don't consider monetization into your design from the beginning, you are self sabotaging your chance at business success". He just said that with less politically correct talk, which is easily ta…

There should be no monetization design in a video game. The design should be make your game good so people will buy it. How ridiculous would it be for other forms of art to have "monetization design". A chef that styles their dishes in such a way that there clearly is a gap in the dish which should contain a nice piece of steak or something else. When you are eating the dish the waiter comes with that piece in hand a…

In principle I don’t entirely disagree that the pendulum has swung way too far towards monetization and away from pure vision in video game design, but it’s funny you mention chefs not compromising…the restaurant business is notoriously low margin and very many new restaurants fail quickly.

One of the more common reasons is that inexperienced owners don’t understand their food costs and therefore design delicious, lovely menu items that actually lose money when you calculate everything that goes into them. If you want it to be more than a brief experiment, you gotta get the spreadsheets out at some point…

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#230
post #25

The full quote for context: > Ferrari and some of the other high-end car manufacturers still use clay and carving knives. It’s a very small portion of the gaming industry that works that way, and some of these people are my favourite people in the world to fight with – they’re the most beautiful and pure, brilliant people. They’re also some of the biggest fucking idiots. Their CEO is certainly not calling everyone an…

I think he says "the biggest fucking idiots" in the way some of us say, "aren't thinking of all the angles".

If folks are getting wrapped up in the insult, they're not reading his tone correctly. He says it lovingly, and even if you disagree with that kind of tone, it's disingenuous to say he's literally calling these people "fucking idiots".

Post reply on HN