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Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

theguardian.com

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Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#131

Post by nly »

Gollapalli wrote: post #63
mrtksn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most immigrants are economically very active since starting a new life from zero requires that. Unless you can't physically fit people in the island, the solution would be to let the immigrants work legally. Number of houses are not fixed like the total number of bitcoins, people can build new ones. Despite the political rhetoric and recent trends, immigration is a good thing and the problems it causes can be reduced…

Wage dilution is an issue. It's the working and middle classes that are most harmed by immigration. Those who are in the position to not have their wages threatened by mass immigration policies are free to reap the rewards of cheap labor, but for those who are in the position of being outcompeted by incoming labor, immigration is a drawback not an asset. Naturally, policymakers are in the former category, and as such…

Real UK wages are stagnant because the UK has a desperately unproductive economy. Growth in disposable household income has lagged Europe massively for decades.

We also have the highest tax burden as a % of GDP in 70 years. House prices are the highest relative to income than they have ever been.

We're a country circling the drain.

Blaming immigration and the EU in political discourse just suits the political agenda of our clueless, ambivalent politicians who haven't got the vision or balls to radically change anything for the better. Instead they'll just pick over what benefits they will cut and what taxes they will cut/increase and run in circles.

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#132

Post by mrtksn »

Gollapalli wrote: post #63
mrtksn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most immigrants are economically very active since starting a new life from zero requires that. Unless you can't physically fit people in the island, the solution would be to let the immigrants work legally. Number of houses are not fixed like the total number of bitcoins, people can build new ones. Despite the political rhetoric and recent trends, immigration is a good thing and the problems it causes can be reduced…

Wage dilution is an issue. It's the working and middle classes that are most harmed by immigration. Those who are in the position to not have their wages threatened by mass immigration policies are free to reap the rewards of cheap labor, but for those who are in the position of being outcompeted by incoming labor, immigration is a drawback not an asset. Naturally, policymakers are in the former category, and as such…

You know what else is bad for the wedges? Schools producing all those engineers undercutting the wedge growth of those already in the profession.

With that logic, education is the primary enemy of the middle class.

Seriously though, this demand to control the supply of labor is a strange one. Everybody is for meritocracy and free market until they are expected to perform. Working permits are like the taxi medallion system.

If someone who speaks native English, went to British schools, have a network in the country thanks to living there since ever cannot compete with someone from, say Romania, it's only fair for the immigrant to take the job.

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#133

Post by brigandish »

closeparen wrote: post #112
brigandish wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoting from that article: > However, skilled immigrating workers can bring capabilities that are not available in the native workforce, for example in academic research or information technology. Additionally, immigrating workforces also create new jobs by expanding demand, thus creating more jobs, either directly by setting up businesses (therefore requiring local services or workers), or indirectly by raising cons…

Yes, the leverage employers can have over immigrants is a big problem. An illegal immigrant who goes to the authorities with a wage theft claim risks being arrested and deported herself. Even a highly educated tech worker at Facebook cannot switch to Google without jeopardizing his family's status in the United States. The harsher the climate towards immigrants in laws and officialdom, the easier they are to exploit.…

> The harsher the climate towards immigrants in laws and officialdom, the easier they are to exploit. The anti-immigration voters who demand this harshness are shooting themselves in the foot a bit, and should reconsider.

That ignores opportunity cost. There's a reason there are camps at Calais, and it's because those in the camps believe - rightly or wrongly - that they are better off applying for asylum in Britain than France.

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#134

Post by brigandish »

bilekas wrote: post #111
brigandish wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is a direct beneficiary though. Whether that is relevant in immigration law, I don't know, but it certainly is in other areas of criminal law (e.g. receiving stolen property, soliciting murder etcetera).

> receiving stolen property Being in possession of stolen property is not necessarily a crime. If you buy something on eBay that was stolen without your knowledge you're not going to get charged. You may have to return it and be out of pocket probably, but not crime. As for soliciting murder that's a crime. There is an intent there. > He is a direct beneficiary though. What if instead of his lief today he was forced…

If we're looking for mens rea then the moment a child is over 10, if they don't confess to being an illegal immigrant then they know what they're doing.

As to your other question, they would be a victim as they are a slave. Return to their country of origin should still be favoured though (but not mandatory). If you were enslaved and sent to another country would you not wish to return? As such I'm not sure why that's relevant. Pointing out that something can become complex does not mean that the simpler cases we're actually discussing can't be solved.

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#135

Post by Gibbon1 »

nly wrote: post #131
Gollapalli wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wage dilution is an issue. It's the working and middle classes that are most harmed by immigration. Those who are in the position to not have their wages threatened by mass immigration policies are free to reap the rewards of cheap labor, but for those who are in the position of being outcompeted by incoming labor, immigration is a drawback not an asset. Naturally, policymakers are in the former category, and as such…

Real UK wages are stagnant because the UK has a desperately unproductive economy. Growth in disposable household income has lagged Europe massively for decades. We also have the highest tax burden as a % of GDP in 70 years. House prices are the highest relative to income than they have ever been. We're a country circling the drain. Blaming immigration and the EU in political discourse just suits the political agenda…

Your comment makes me think of this essay by Branko Milanovic

Particularly this line: Xi sees the break-up of the Soviet Union and the end of the CPSU as the result of “ideological nihilism”: the ruling strata have ceased to believe in the advantages and the value of the system, but lacked any other ideological coordinates within which to situate their thinking.

https://braveneweurope.com/branko-milanovic-the-rule-of-nihi...

My personal term to describe the players in Britain's politics is functional incompetence. Which is while they are adept at gaining and holding on to office, they are hapless at performing the actual duties of those offices.

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#136

Post by komadori »

notch656a wrote: post #69
bruceb wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree that immigrants are a good thing. Especially illegal immigrants if they have no way to benefit from tax benefits but are forced to pay into it This is misstating the situation. 1. People working under the table don't pay taxes. 2. Those who do pay taxes are not earning that much as such not paying much tax 3. They do get benefits. For example CA gave illegal immigrants payments. https://abcnews.go.com/US/wi…

I know for instance Norway has suggested allowing illegal immigrants onward voyage to Svalbard where there are no public benefits but also no visa requirements to work, which allow them to technically stay in Norway and still have work authorization without becoming a public charge. I think this kind of clever problem solving is really the kind we need to overcome some of these challenges.

There are no public benefits in Svalbard because they send anyone who can't support themselves back to Norway. The economy is small and dominated by a few state-owned employers who own almost all the housing and rent it to their employees.

Sending illegal immigrants from Norway to Svalbard is not a practical suggestion.

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#137

Post by cmsj »

cm2187 wrote: post #83
petesergeant wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the OP is saying that children trafficked into a country they subsequently grew up in should probably be treated as victims and dealt with compassionately, whether or not they're widely loved sports stars

I understand the intention but even then you are creating a loophole, i.e. you bring people under 18 illegally, they get the nationality through this loophole, then you need to grant visas to the parent who will care for them. It's basically the story of the loophole of "don't put children in jail and don't separate them from their parents either" at the US border. All good intentions, the consequences of which is th…

"creating a loophole" presupposes that we want to stop people as much as possible, from coming to our country.

I consider it an extraordinary privilege to have people wanting to flee here for safety and opportunity, and not just because they might turn out to be olympic athletes, but because they need us and we can help.

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#138

Post by origin_path »

danw1979 wrote: post #102
cm2187 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they cross the borders in Somalia they may be refugees. By the time they have crossed the borders, in and out, of 10 countries that are not at war, to land in the UK, they are economic migrants.

It’s such a bunk argument to suggest that because there are other countries physically inbeween the refugee’s homeland and Britain that they are economic migrants by the time they get here. If they all settled at the point closest to their homeland that wasn’t “at war” I’m pretty sure there would soon be conflict there. Britain is a rich, developed nation that is quite easily able to support our “fair share” of refug…

Being a refugee should not be (and isn't) a blank cheque to settle in whatever part of the world you want, financially supported by the locals regardless of whether they want you there or not. If it were that would be a perverse incentive to actually try and make your own country collapse, as it'd be easier to claim "refugee" status than fix domestic issues. This is doubly true given that some people are fanatical about the issue of fully open borders regardless of downsides, and will immediately expand the definition of "refugee" to incorporate anyone at all. The concept of a "climate refugee" is already being promoted, for example.

Combined with the argument you're making here it is just a cynical attempt to hijack people's good natured desire to help genuine war refugees, into jackhammering unlimited migration and open borders into society without consideration of any costs. This must not be allowed to happen as this kind of abuse will ultimately result in the collapse of support for any kind of refugee and asylum support.

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#139

Post by cmsj »

toyg wrote: post #122
rvieira wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately she believes she is popular and is busy prepping her bid for PM, at the moment.

She is popular. I had to switch radio channel yesterday when one of her supporters called in; Rwanda effectively locked in the "casual nazi" constituency for her, and that constituency is vast . It's possible she won't find the 30 MPs she needs to get on the ballot, but if she manages to get on the shortlist, I'd bet good money she will win.

I detest how right you are.

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#140

Post by 07t15 »

secondcoming wrote: post #126
sva_ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheap labor that isn't allowed to vote. We see this all over Europe. I wonder what gives.

If you’re in the UK legally you can vote.

As someone who is legally in the UK (more than a year), this isn't true. It might apply to the citizens of some countries (like the EU).
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