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As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

economist.com

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Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#251

Post by lmm »

wyre wrote: post #243
Brybry wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't worry too much about TikTok's impact on the youth as a population (rather than specific individuals with evidence of actual struggles). Similar fears were expressed about music corrupting the youth. And TV rotting their brains. And video games turning them into mass murderers. And yet, even with all the actual addictive poisons generations of youth have imbibed, those youth turned into us and here we are p…

Social media addiction is a very real thing and tiktok does it better than any of its competitors.

I've heard this but it doesn't match my experience at all. I see far more addictive behaviour on facebook or twitter (or, hell, HN).

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#252

Post by lmm »

im3w1l wrote: post #143
hunglee2 wrote: post #2

excellent article, surprisingly nuanced and - I think - fair in its analysis. The main fear is not that it is a foreign owned app - after all, most people in the countries all over the world are using foreign owned (US) apps - it is because it is the first non-US app used by US citizens which unnerves both the US government and US commentariat. Whether those fears are justified or not, I suspect US will follow the Ch…

I never got the feeling that US distrusted EU software.

They definitely ignore and dismiss anything made in the EU. I don't think there's been an overwhelmingly popular app that's forced them to confront the idea of most US citizens using EU software yet.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#253

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

Calvin02 wrote: post #223
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

You would be surprised if you polled non-US, non-China citizens about what country is the biggest geopolitical threat to the world.

Wait, I don't even need to talk in conditionals. I Googled it and apparently it has indeed been done several times, and the results are what I expected.

https://brilliantmaps.com/threat-to-peace/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-demo...

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#254

Post by alfiedotwtf »

pempem wrote: post #240
shikoba wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is because China is the enemy. When it's Facebook or Google strangely it's never an issue. Moral is always a facade for international economic war. And some people fall for it.

While most people on HN would agree that they would like more regulation of their data on FB and Google, these are largely still separate actors from the US government. You can even indicate that something like Cambridge Analytica is starting within a party, rather than the actual governing body. There is too much sharing, IMO, without a doubt. That being said, they are not near synonymous as TikTok is. Data regulati…

> these are largely still separate actors from the US government

Yes they're separate actors, but programs like PRISM suggest that they're still on a very short leash

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#255

Post by groffee »

chaostheory wrote: post #224
mkl95 wrote: post #212

TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far, and it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. In my opinion the application should be shut down as soon as possible, but there are many lessons to learn from it. And most of them have little to do with technology.

What data are we exactly giving Tiktok? I would agree with it being called a propaganda platform, but I’m not sure about it being a surveillance platform.

You can't sign up with just an email, you need third party integration like Twitter, and surprise, you need to give TikTok full access to your account.

Still pretty entertaining though.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#256

Post by aparticulate »

curious_cat_163 wrote: post #228
lumost wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is effectively demanding an impossible solution to a present problem. Asking grade school children to weigh the geopolitical consequences of their cat videos is never going to happen. You’re talking about an age group which is still learning basic literacy. The solution is regulation, we already regulate children's television programming for this exact reason.

I don't see how we disagree. If by "present problem" you mean, the fact that TikTok happens to have been built by a Chinese company, then I see what you mean. Even still, for a democracy, the best protection against any potential threat is to prepare its citizens. In this case, the citizenry needs to be prepared cognitively. Arguably, it would help, if we started early -- get them while they are young? I don't see wh…

> Even still, for a democracy, the best protection against any potential threat is to prepare its citizens. In this case, the citizenry needs to be prepared cognitively.

There's no way I would trust managers, certainly, their managers to not simply regurgitate the most "CNN-friendly" curriculum imaginable. Maybe pre-2015 I would agree. US education simply isn't a trustworthy system at the moment. The threat has already arrived and the good teachers are leaving in droves.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#257

Post by bitlax »

fabianhjr wrote: post #238
Calvin02 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

I am from latin america and at least neither China nor Russia have participated in coup d'etat to install a military junta to then torture and massacre anyone slightly left of the US "Democratic" Party. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI

Yeah Russia has been totally hands off in Latin America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara#/media/File:CheinM...

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#258

Post by option »

madeofpalk wrote: post #216
mkl95 wrote: post #212

TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far, and it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. In my opinion the application should be shut down as soon as possible, but there are many lessons to learn from it. And most of them have little to do with technology.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

under which rule would your rather live Western (US) or China. And no, realistically you do not have “your own” choice

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#259

Post by bko »

shikoba wrote: post #217
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

It is because China is the enemy. When it's Facebook or Google strangely it's never an issue. Moral is always a facade for international economic war. And some people fall for it.

I think there's a difference between a private company having my data and an adversarial government. The company has a clear motive, profit. They're lawful neutral. An adversarial government may be chaotic evil. I don't know why this isn't obvious.

Wasn't everyone freaking out just a few years ago when Russian government was manipulating people with political groups on Facebook? And that's even with Facebook's earnest effort to prevent these things. With this company, there's a direct tie in with an adversarial government.

Yes, ideally I don't want anyone to have my data, but lets not pretend Zuck and CCP are the same thing

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#260

Post by lmm »

trasz wrote: post #222
meowtimemania wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ironic you even mention abortion, given that abortions were forced to maintain the one child policy until 2015, and then 3 child policy until 2021. Is not the government's absolute power to control family size the most blaring example of authoritarianism?

>given that abortions were forced to maintain the one child policy until [citation needed]. Various accounts I've seen claimed it was more like a financial fine; forced abortions sound like Zenz-type fabrication.

Officially there was only the massive financial incentive. However local officials also had financial incentives to keep birth rates low in their areas, and many of them resorted to more direct coercion, which is widely thought to have been a not entirely unintended consequence.
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