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As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

economist.com

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Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#221

Post by shikoba »

collegeburner wrote: post #8
tonymet wrote: post #5

they mention data harvesting and influencing public relations as risks, and both are worrisome . another more subtle but pernicious concern is the trivialization of entertainment (which started from a low bar ) tiktok is addictive and much of the content is low bar , slapstick and sexually suggestive thirst traps . there may be a good share of high quality content , but we all know time spent is on garbage. our grand…

fr it's scary how i watch ppl on it, they're like zombies. and yeah like half that shit is just girls "dancing" (shaking jiggly parts) in short clothes, like i mean that's fine but watching it all the time isn't healthy. look at how much is under #fakebody which is basically all people in short clothing trying not to get banned. and yeah probably you can make it show interesting stuff but it plays to people's weaker…

Why not do the same with other companies? Do you totally assume that it's just economic war?

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#222

Post by trasz »

meowtimemania wrote: post #91
okasaki wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, abortion is legal in China[1], the last time a police officer killed someone was in 2019[2] and their incarceration rate is 5x lower[3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_China [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...

It's ironic you even mention abortion, given that abortions were forced to maintain the one child policy until 2015, and then 3 child policy until 2021. Is not the government's absolute power to control family size the most blaring example of authoritarianism?

>given that abortions were forced to maintain the one child policy until

[citation needed]. Various accounts I've seen claimed it was more like a financial fine; forced abortions sound like Zenz-type fabrication.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#223

Post by Calvin02 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #216
mkl95 wrote: post #212

TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far, and it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. In my opinion the application should be shut down as soon as possible, but there are many lessons to learn from it. And most of them have little to do with technology.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world.

It is surprisingly that simple.

While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII.

I don’t know why anyone would be afraid to say this.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#224

Post by chaostheory »

mkl95 wrote: post #212

TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far, and it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. In my opinion the application should be shut down as soon as possible, but there are many lessons to learn from it. And most of them have little to do with technology.

What data are we exactly giving Tiktok? I would agree with it being called a propaganda platform, but I’m not sure about it being a surveillance platform.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#225

Post by thrown_22 »

ThisIsMyAltFace wrote: post #131
trasz wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>China passed a law a couple of years ago requiring all Chinese companies to give the government live access to their databases. Yeah, just like US. TikTok isn't any different from, say, YouTube in this regard.

This is just 100% untrue

Yes, what happens is that the US asks Australia, part of 5 eyes, to use their back doors, which need to be install by law there https://fee.org/articles/australia-s-unprecedented-encryptio..., for any user data US agencies want.

Completely different to China just having access to that data.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#226

Post by nemothekid »

winternett wrote: post #78
analyst74 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For successful YouTubers, the money coming from YT is actually not their primary income, one YouTuber publically said YT payout is ~1/4 of their total revenue. Their other main sources of revenue includes brand deals, affiliates, product/merc sales and direct donation. Tiktokers are generally following YouTuber model in how they monetize their content, minus Ads revenue share.

If Microsoft said "Come work for us every day for free, you may get brand deals!" Would anyone with talent, skills, and self respect jump to do it? Working for free at a large and quite profitable company? The problem is that because of how perception can be manipulated on social platforms based on that success illusion. It makes people think that the success comes just for creating simple content, and trumps one's a…

Even normal creators, on YouTube and TikTok, can get paid; it's called the Partner Program and Creator Fund respectfully the bar to clear it is relatively low. From there you can earn yourself a percentage of those millions; at roughly one dollar for everyone million views.

It's not different than acting or professional sports; and it's far better than Facebook/Twitter model where they monetize your content with no path revenue at all. Among my list of problems with YouTube/TikTok, the revenue model is not one of them.

Vine died because quality creators left the platform, and they left the platform because Vine wasn't willing to pay them to stay. The formula is remarkably simple and for these next generations, many of them only know social media personalities. I fear that your definition of "quality content" has been shaped by your upbringing; what you consider "simple content" is "real content" for people who grew up on these platforms. I'm sure you are unaware of the thousands of creators who have millions of followers in niches you have never even heard about. While the content is "simpler" it is more diverse than you can even imagine; and thats where the staying power comes from.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#227

Post by trasz »

illiac786 wrote: post #169
trasz wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of course a two party system is fundamentally different from one party one :-D

I'm assuming there is irony and you mean 2 is not enough. But it's still day and night compared to single party, irony is not an argument in itself.

No, two parties representing largely the same lobbyists and sharing largely the same views are not "night and day" compared to one party. I'd go as far as to say they are exactly the same, except for pretending there's some actual, working opposition.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#228

Post by curious_cat_163 »

lumost wrote: post #47
curious_cat_163 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that the US doesn’t ban TikTok. That would be a very bad outcome for the concept of an open internet. I do think more regulation are likely in order. There are some very good arguments for not letting children under a certain age to be allowed on the social media platforms. However, the enforcement of those laws is spotty and is left to parental controls. What we need is an outbreak of social media literacy am…

This is effectively demanding an impossible solution to a present problem. Asking grade school children to weigh the geopolitical consequences of their cat videos is never going to happen. You’re talking about an age group which is still learning basic literacy. The solution is regulation, we already regulate children's television programming for this exact reason.

I don't see how we disagree.

If by "present problem" you mean, the fact that TikTok happens to have been built by a Chinese company, then I see what you mean.

Even still, for a democracy, the best protection against any potential threat is to prepare its citizens. In this case, the citizenry needs to be prepared cognitively.

Arguably, it would help, if we started early -- get them while they are young?

I don't see what other long-term things that a democracy can do.

Other than starting a war in the near-term, I suppose?

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#229

Post by Brybry »

dcchambers wrote: post #147

The addictive nature of TikTok scares the shit out of me. It's like the culmination of 20 years of social media research and testing purposely designed to create the most addictive product possible. Such a large percentage of young people use it...it's absolutely terrifying.

I wouldn't worry too much about TikTok's impact on the youth as a population (rather than specific individuals with evidence of actual struggles).

Similar fears were expressed about music corrupting the youth. And TV rotting their brains. And video games turning them into mass murderers.

And yet, even with all the actual addictive poisons generations of youth have imbibed, those youth turned into us and here we are posting on HN.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#230

Post by onelovetwo »

Calvin02 wrote: post #223
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

If you're looking at it from that perspective, tiktok should be the least of your worries. Currently The U.S. is entirely dependent on this "geopolitical threat" to survive. At least with tiktok its as simple as shutting down the app.

The U.S and China are entangled in ways you cant imagine.

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