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As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

economist.com

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Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#241

Post by nemothekid »

curious_cat_163 wrote: post #228
lumost wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is effectively demanding an impossible solution to a present problem. Asking grade school children to weigh the geopolitical consequences of their cat videos is never going to happen. You’re talking about an age group which is still learning basic literacy. The solution is regulation, we already regulate children's television programming for this exact reason.

I don't see how we disagree. If by "present problem" you mean, the fact that TikTok happens to have been built by a Chinese company, then I see what you mean. Even still, for a democracy, the best protection against any potential threat is to prepare its citizens. In this case, the citizenry needs to be prepared cognitively. Arguably, it would help, if we started early -- get them while they are young? I don't see wh…

>In this case, the citizenry needs to be prepared cognitively.

This is such a pie in the sky suggestion that I'm forced to wonder if you even pay attention to US politics. To give you some context some of the biggest issues in education right now is:

1. Arming teachers with rifles

2. Dismantling the public school system and replacing them with vouchers.

The last federally mandated educational solution, No Child Left Behind, was a massive failure and has soured most future federally mandated educational policies. Asking underfunded teachers to teach 9 year olds why they shouldn't use the "funny cat app" because of complex geopolitics will end up ignored at best or lead to incredibly xenophobia at worst (Ms. Adams told me not to use TikTok because China is evil, henceforth all asians are out to trick me).

>I don't see what other long-term things that a democracy can do.

Actually enforce data privacy laws universally. Of course this will anger the Facebook/Google trillion dollar oligarchs so we are told there is nothing we can do. The crux of the issue is that US wants everyone else data (EU, Oceania, Asia) but it doesn't want other companies to do the same. Your solutions are either you ban it for hegemony reasons, and pray that Europe/India/Japan/Australia doesn't enact the same law, or you ban it for privacy reasons.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#242

Post by jsemrau »

mkl95 wrote: post #212

TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far, and it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. In my opinion the application should be shut down as soon as possible, but there are many lessons to learn from it. And most of them have little to do with technology.

You are likely mistaken. FB/Meta is still the leading data-broker because

(a) they track you even though you are not on their app [1] (b) they own 55% of app downloads in the US [2]

[1] https://media.ccc.de/v/35c3-9941-how_facebook_tracks_you_on_... [2] https://app.finclout.io/t/b9BbQa4

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#243

Post by wyre »

Brybry wrote: post #229
dcchambers wrote: post #147

The addictive nature of TikTok scares the shit out of me. It's like the culmination of 20 years of social media research and testing purposely designed to create the most addictive product possible. Such a large percentage of young people use it...it's absolutely terrifying.

I wouldn't worry too much about TikTok's impact on the youth as a population (rather than specific individuals with evidence of actual struggles). Similar fears were expressed about music corrupting the youth. And TV rotting their brains. And video games turning them into mass murderers. And yet, even with all the actual addictive poisons generations of youth have imbibed, those youth turned into us and here we are p…

Social media addiction is a very real thing and tiktok does it better than any of its competitors.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#244

Post by ciroduran »

fabianhjr wrote: post #238
Calvin02 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

I am from latin america and at least neither China nor Russia have participated in coup d'etat to install a military junta to then torture and massacre anyone slightly left of the US "Democratic" Party. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI

Hi from Venezuela

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#245

Post by tchalla »

lumost wrote: post #35
crmd wrote: post #28

85% of US teenagers use tiktok. That's 85% of the future generation of US senators, Cabinet members, and Supreme Court justices, of police chiefs, civil rights activists, mayors, CEOs, etc. in their bedrooms right now consuming content curated by, and filming their lives and that of their friends, and uploading the video to data centers, that are controlled by a strategic adversary of the United States. This is, to p…

In what world does it make sense to allow a country who blocks access to their market unrestricted access to the US market? If china is a rival to the US, why do they have one of the most favorable trade deals?

In the world where US controls the petrodollar system. That world.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#246

Post by fabianhjr »

ciroduran wrote: post #244
fabianhjr wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am from latin america and at least neither China nor Russia have participated in coup d'etat to install a military junta to then torture and massacre anyone slightly left of the US "Democratic" Party. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI

Hi from Venezuela

Ah yes, also curiously enough the US is way more prone to completely embargo Cuba and Venezuela but neither Russia nor China. (Due to political-economic reasons and not moral/ethical ones)

Edit: profile I am replying to has the following in their about section: "about: I play music and I code videogames. I live in Brighton, UK." so assuming the "hi from venezuela" was sarcastic.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#248

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

pempem wrote: post #240
shikoba wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is because China is the enemy. When it's Facebook or Google strangely it's never an issue. Moral is always a facade for international economic war. And some people fall for it.

While most people on HN would agree that they would like more regulation of their data on FB and Google, these are largely still separate actors from the US government. You can even indicate that something like Cambridge Analytica is starting within a party, rather than the actual governing body. There is too much sharing, IMO, without a doubt. That being said, they are not near synonymous as TikTok is. Data regulati…

The thing is that "government = bad" is typical American mindset. As another non-US, non-Chinese citizen, the fact that those megacorporations are independent from the government makes it worse, not better.

At least governments respond to their people (especially in the case of democracies, much less so for authoritarian governments, but they still have to worry a minimum to avoid revolution). Corporations respond to profit only, everything else be damned.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#249

Post by lmm »

Calvin02 wrote: post #223
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

> While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still a largely law abiding.

Perhaps on an internal level. But for those of us in third countries what matters is how they act outside their borders, and the US is doing considerably more dronestriking of their political enemies than China is.

(And even if you just look at domestic aspects, the relevant area is one of the exceptions. The NSA seems to be decoupled from any oversight - its leaders lie to congress with impunity, any attempts to hold them to account via the courts are dismissed...)

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#250

Post by alfiedotwtf »

Calvin02 wrote: post #223
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

> they are still a largely law abiding

Where does one even begin...

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