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Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

reuters.com

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Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#331

Post by yardstick »

dekimir wrote: post #284
sophacles wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Cloudflare blog suggests it's BGP problems: https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflares-view-of-the-rogers-c...

How does that relate to the Rogers cell service outage, though? Surely SMS doesn't require BGP? It feels like there's a big, fundamental problem affecting a variety of Rogers infra, where BGP and cell problems are just symptoms we can observe. CloudFlare says it looks more like a failure than an attack; I'm not entirely convinced.

I don’t think it’s an attack.

I’m in Canada at the moment with my UK SIM and using Rogers internet just fine. Completely unaware of any problems until my friends warned me about needing cash and I then double checked and still, phone internet via Rogers on a roaming SIM worked fine.

My guess is their voice, sms etc all are IP these days which was impacted by their BGP issues. Whereas my UK carrier roaming gives me a UK IP still, unrelated to Rogers advertised blocks.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#332

Post by mgbmtl »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #305
mgbmtl wrote: post #257

I think my weirdest experience was a server that was jammed on "apt update". I looked up the IP using whois.. and it belonged to Rogers.

Where was the server?

The server was setup to use ftp.ca.debian.org, which currently resolves to 207.210.46.249, and the whois for that mentions Rogers.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#333

Post by hackbinary »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #154
hackbinary wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. "Crown Land" in Canada is owned by the provinces. There is no such thing as a "British Crown Corporation." Crown Corporations are a Canadian thing. I lived in Canada for 30 years and now live in the Scotland. CalMac and Scottish Water are not "Crown Corporations," but are nevertheless owned and controlled by the Scottish Ministers. This is contrast to BC Ferries, ICBC, and BC Hydro which are Crown Corporations. I…

>> No. "Crown Land" in Canada is owned by the provinces. Crown land is owned by the Canadian Crown; the monarchy owns all crown land officially. It's administered by a split across federal and provincial jurisdictions.

>> Crown land is owned by the Canadian Crown; the monarchy owns all crown land officially. It's administered by a split across federal and provincial jurisdictions.

No, Crown Land is controlled by the provinces. No, the Canadian monarchy does not own crown land. The Crown owns crown land. Essentially The Crown in Canada is its own legal entity and instrument for the purposes of administration of public lands. The Crown Estates of England and Scotland are something different again, and the Crown Estate owns things like tidal lands and actual real property.

There is Federal Crown Land, but that is almost completely in the northern territories. This is down to Canada's constitutional makeup because provinces control resources.

The Federal government can expropriate land from the provinces when it has a reason to do so like for military bases.

Here is a link that shows Canada Lands. The white area are Provincial Lands.

https://clss.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/data-donnees/sgb-maps-dag-car...

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#334

Post by hackbinary »

ipaddr wrote: post #155
hackbinary wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. "Crown Land" in Canada is owned by the provinces. There is no such thing as a "British Crown Corporation." Crown Corporations are a Canadian thing. I lived in Canada for 30 years and now live in the Scotland. CalMac and Scottish Water are not "Crown Corporations," but are nevertheless owned and controlled by the Scottish Ministers. This is contrast to BC Ferries, ICBC, and BC Hydro which are Crown Corporations. I…

In Canadila about half of the crown land is federal and the other half provincial. In 2013 11% was private, 41% federal crown and 46 provincial crown

Federal Crown Land is almost exclusively in the northern territories.

Resource administration is a constitutional power that provinces administrator.

The area in white in the below map are not Canada Lands which makes them Provincial Lands, ie Provincial Crown Lands.

https://clss.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/data-donnees/sgb-maps-dag-car...

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#335

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

xwolfi wrote: post #313
skipants wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. I was about to write a whole comment about how I've never seen this myself and to disagree with you I was going to compare the price of Bell Fibre in my building to Beanfield. The latter of which I have at $50/mo at 1Gbps. But then I loaded up Bell's availability page and entered my address... it was almost like a sick joke…

Man those prices, Ill use other currencies to be more precise, but in Paris, the 1Gbps was 30 euros and now that I live in Hong Kong it's 250 HKD. Canadian prices could be explained by the increasing cost with lower density, but damn, high speed dedicated fiber is still a luxury in some place, we forget, us dense cities' people. Competition is not the only thing, in France we have 4 highly regulated fiber providers w…

>the 1Gbps was 30 euros

That's still pretty good. In Austria that's 80 euros since telecoms here have the same government protected cartel as in Canada. And it's not even available in every building of the city, but you need to check before you move whether you have fiber or not in the building.

Similar in Germany.

One of the things I miss from Eastern Europe is the fast and cheap internet that's available in any building in the city.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#336

Post by hackbinary »

kelseydh wrote: post #276
ryanbrunner wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also have national and provincial parks, Crown land is different. A national park is maintained for visitors and for nature, crown land is closer to unused or unclaimed land, generally nothing is done with it unless it's sold off. You are free to camp on crown land, but it's nothing like going to a park, it's full on wilderness camping with no amenities, sites, or anything else.

My point is, Canadians think of government land philosophically as something that is not theirs, but rather, owned by the crown -- the Queen. While Americans see public land as their shared land. This mentality penetrates into many of the differences between the two countries in how they govern.

No, Canadians do not see Crown Land as owned by the Canadian Monarchy, they see Crown Land and owned and controlled by the government as a public asset.

Canadians see the Canadian Royal Family as nothing more than a figurehead of the state.

I am a Canadian and I have studied British and North American History extensively.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#337

Post by hackbinary »

martinald wrote: post #117
hackbinary wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait until you hear about the UK. BT/Openreach has control of about 80% of the backhaul/trunk connectivity.

Completely not comparable. Openreach has significant marketshare but is also extremely tightly regulated. It has to allow other providers access to basically every element of its offering, now including its physical ducts and poles. Hence you have a very competitive market landscape in the UK. There are at least 5 major national retail players using various wholesale products (BT, VM, TalkTalk, Sky, Vodafone), plus d…

>> London

Yip, things in London are quite different than the rest of the UK.

While Openreach has to allow access to other providers to its infrastructure, most infrastructure is owned and controlled by BT.

If you want FTTP, the underlying service is still BT Openreach. Openreach is very profitable.

At my previous employer it cost us £30K to have BT put in 3000m of fibre that took them 1 afternoon, then it cost £1K a month for a 30Mbs service.

BT owns provides the vast majority of broadband service in the UK and it is somewhat disingenuous to claim BT is on an equal footing as Hyperoptic, VM, or Community Fibre.

TT and Sky use BT OR infra, and EE, Plusnet, and BT Retail are all owned by the BT Group.

The telecom market in the UK is very consolidated and controlled by BT.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#338

Post by dmix »

ornornor wrote: post #320
xwolfi wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man those prices, Ill use other currencies to be more precise, but in Paris, the 1Gbps was 30 euros and now that I live in Hong Kong it's 250 HKD. Canadian prices could be explained by the increasing cost with lower density, but damn, high speed dedicated fiber is still a luxury in some place, we forget, us dense cities' people. Competition is not the only thing, in France we have 4 highly regulated fiber providers w…

The density argument is utter BS. A vast majority of the population is concentrated in 5 very dense cities, and no one is asking the incumbents to provide FTTH to every house in Nunavut. It’s cartel behavior at its best. The Canadian telecom landscape is a sick joke.

The rural argument also never made sense because why not just start a nationalized ISP or subsidy that purely serves the rural north? Why sarcrifice the competitiveness of whole countries ISP market for a very small part of the country?

The same argument is used for keeping the postal service public when you could just subsidize the parts of the market that wouldn’t be self-sustaining rather than propping up the entire money-losing crown business. Burning tax dollars at the parcel delivery business in the age of e-commerce is a sad joke.

The whole “rural people are being protected” seems like a cover story for powerful friends of politicians to keep the money train rolling, and regular people eat it up on social media.

Plus Starlink et al has rendered the rural argument moot.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#339

Post by dmix »

jvm___ wrote: post #273
mrshadowgoose wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On paper, yes. But over the last few decades our regulatory bodies have been subverted by influence from our telcoms. Recently our telecom regulator (the CRTC) was considering whether MVNOs should be allowed in Canada. Our Competition Beaureau, which is supposed to be enforcing antitrust laws, provided guidance to the CRTC[1]. Here's an excerpt: "MVNOs can drive lower prices and greater choice, but they also could th…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

There really should be a big investment in an anti-regulatory capture organization the way there are anti-trust lawyers and privacy czars.

Which would have the dual purpose of employing researchers and public outreach and have powers to stop hires, limit grants/subsidies, and collaborates with with anti-trust.

But who are we kidding, politicians never bite the hands that feed them.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#340

Post by dmix »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #301
Teever wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utilities like telecoms can't be free market due to the natural monopoly effect. We can't have a hundred different companies burying infrastructure or stringing up lines on poles.

An extra 2 or 3 might be ok.

Seriously, the world will not end because more than two companies are laying fibre. Especially as the country grows in size.

This weak apologia for monopolies is what keeps them around. Even when the cost created via gov-backed pseudo-private monopolies are obviously worse than their hypotheticals.

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