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Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

reuters.com

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Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#311

Post by zx8080 »

UkrainianJew wrote: post #121

The utterly inefficient and overpriced Canadian telecoms exist only because we allow one specific behavior: 1. A new local player comes to town, builds their own infrastructure (e.g. connects one building to fiber) and starts offering competitive service. 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. 3. The competitor runs out of money and leaves. 4. The telecoms revert…

What exactly does prevent almost any company in the free market to protect their market share with this way (if they can)?

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#312

Post by octoberfranklin »

walrus01 wrote: post #251
futureproofd wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They legally have the right of way to build infrastructure to connect to newly developed, last mile locations? Interesting.

whether in usa or canada, local governments treat the incumbent local phone company and cable tv company as a default essential utility, so if it's not a legally enshrined right, it would certainly be shocking and weird if they didn't build to new places of course in places where the local phone company or cable tv company shares aerial utility pole based infrastructure with the local power company, they're very clos…

In most of the USA the local telcos are obligated to extend service to new construction as part of government grants they've received in the past. The obligation is usually for something like ~10 years, but the grant cycle is shorter than that.

The recent "RDOF" mega-grant has one of these clauses (at the census block level):

"All support recipients must serve locations newly built after the revised location total but before the end of year eight upon reasonable request"

https://www.fcc.gov/auction/904/factsheet

These mega-grant things happen every 6-8 years. The last was "CAP II", preceded by "CAP I", etc. The telcos are basically treated like municipalities when it comes to federal grantmaking. This is basically the system that was lobbied into place after AT&T was broken up; the FCC just took over AT&T's local-loop capital allocation.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#313

Post by xwolfi »

skipants wrote: post #164
UkrainianJew wrote: post #121

The utterly inefficient and overpriced Canadian telecoms exist only because we allow one specific behavior: 1. A new local player comes to town, builds their own infrastructure (e.g. connects one building to fiber) and starts offering competitive service. 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. 3. The competitor runs out of money and leaves. 4. The telecoms revert…

> 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. I was about to write a whole comment about how I've never seen this myself and to disagree with you I was going to compare the price of Bell Fibre in my building to Beanfield. The latter of which I have at $50/mo at 1Gbps. But then I loaded up Bell's availability page and entered my address... it was almost like a sick joke…

Man those prices, Ill use other currencies to be more precise, but in Paris, the 1Gbps was 30 euros and now that I live in Hong Kong it's 250 HKD. Canadian prices could be explained by the increasing cost with lower density, but damn, high speed dedicated fiber is still a luxury in some place, we forget, us dense cities' people.

Competition is not the only thing, in France we have 4 highly regulated fiber providers who must compete or pay fines, but in HK it's way more shady and we choose building and flats to get the best ones (cable is shit, former public telco is expensive, new kid is fast and cheap). It's still nowhere near your prices: a shit cable is 98HKD and an expensive HK Telecom is 500...

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#314

Post by octoberfranklin »

nerdponx wrote: post #184
UkrainianJew wrote: post #121

The utterly inefficient and overpriced Canadian telecoms exist only because we allow one specific behavior: 1. A new local player comes to town, builds their own infrastructure (e.g. connects one building to fiber) and starts offering competitive service. 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. 3. The competitor runs out of money and leaves. 4. The telecoms revert…

Does Canada not have strong antitrust laws? As far as I know, this is explicitly illegal in the USA.

> this is explicitly illegal in the USA

Oh my sweet summer child.

The Canadians learned this scam from us. Centurylink has been doing this for decades. They ran several WISPs out of business in Bellingham, WA.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#315

Post by kogepathic »

ttul wrote: post #199
bandwidth wrote: post #136

The VP of Rogers admits they have yet to identify the root cause: https://twitter.com/PnPCBC/status/1545512971878662145

This is absolutely astonishing.

> This is absolutely astonishing.

It's quite astonishing by any reasonable standard, but this is Rogers we're talking about, so pretty much par for the course.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#316

Post by dredmorbius »

Scoundreller wrote: post #179
throwaway742 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much storage does Wikipedia take up?

88gb for English

For more information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwix

~88 GB w/ images, English. 47 GB w/o.

There are also Wikipedia apps which opportunistically download pages. You'll have access to what you've previously read offline, but will require connectivity to read more.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#317

Post by dredmorbius »

drpgq wrote: post #2

I was hoping there would be a discussion of this here with some inside baseball, but then HN was down.

There's a Wikipedia article, though it's still sparse. It should have post mortem information once that's official.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2022_Rogers_Communication...

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#318

Post by [deleted] »

dredmorbius wrote: post #317
drpgq wrote: post #2

I was hoping there would be a discussion of this here with some inside baseball, but then HN was down.

There's a Wikipedia article, though it's still sparse. It should have post mortem information once that's official. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2022_Rogers_Communication...

[deleted]

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#319

Post by xwolfi »

Teever wrote: post #274
amelius wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like how the free market was designed to work. Not that I find it a particularly good design, though.

Utilities like telecoms can't be free market due to the natural monopoly effect. We can't have a hundred different companies burying infrastructure or stringing up lines on poles.

You can, but profitability is limited. You can have 5/6 maybe max in a dense country. With 4 in France, they each slowly fibered the whole country reaching an approximate 25% coverage each and compete in wave: one day they are at 20MBps and suddenly one explodes at 100 and the rest run after to restabilize market share. If they dont they all get fined by the regulator looking at european average speeds.

Re: Rogers network outage across Canada hits banks, businesses and consumers

#320

Post by ornornor »

xwolfi wrote: post #313
skipants wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Rogers/Shaw/Bell/Telus immediately offer better terms for the residents of that building. I was about to write a whole comment about how I've never seen this myself and to disagree with you I was going to compare the price of Bell Fibre in my building to Beanfield. The latter of which I have at $50/mo at 1Gbps. But then I loaded up Bell's availability page and entered my address... it was almost like a sick joke…

Man those prices, Ill use other currencies to be more precise, but in Paris, the 1Gbps was 30 euros and now that I live in Hong Kong it's 250 HKD. Canadian prices could be explained by the increasing cost with lower density, but damn, high speed dedicated fiber is still a luxury in some place, we forget, us dense cities' people. Competition is not the only thing, in France we have 4 highly regulated fiber providers w…

The density argument is utter BS. A vast majority of the population is concentrated in 5 very dense cities, and no one is asking the incumbents to provide FTTH to every house in Nunavut.

It’s cartel behavior at its best. The Canadian telecom landscape is a sick joke.

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