If it aint Airbus take the bus
If it ain’t Boeing I ain’t going.
Not joking?
Boeing CEO says planemaker could be forced to cancel 737 Max 10
41–50 of 83 posts
Re: Boeing CEO says planemaker could be forced to cancel 737 Max 10
#42If it aint Airbus take the bus
If it’s Boeing, I’m not going.
Re: Boeing CEO says planemaker could be forced to cancel 737 Max 10
#43Re: Boeing CEO says planemaker could be forced to cancel 737 Max 10
#44What's the point of this plane? It's not that cheap, it's not that good for fuel efficiency, it misses most modern (decade old) systems like eicas. Seems another odd Boeing plane that woukd only sell because the competition cannot fill all orders.
Boeing ended production of the 757 18 years ago and they still have no strategy for a successor besides more duck tape on the 737.
If I understand the timeline properly, Boeing had a strategy, at least nominally: NMA, an all-new replacement for the 757. Boeing had to be brow-beat by their biggest customers to support the initiative, but at least from the outside they seemed to acquiesce.
Airbus responded with the A321XLR, betting it could reach market faster. Boeing countered by dropping NMA and trying to copy the Airbus approach of racing to market with a stretch variant of their workhorse (737 MAX vs A321neo). But Airbus was actually able to execute. A321XLR is on the verge of shipping while Boeing has been caught flat footed, again.
Also, A321XLR has significantly better specs than the 737 MAX 10 as the former was designed when Airbus thought it was going to compete with the NMA. 737 MAX 10 tries to be a cheaper alternative to A321XLR, but in trying to be a cheaper alternative to a cheaper alternative, Boeing lost the plot.
Re: Boeing CEO says planemaker could be forced to cancel 737 Max 10
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
is the consensus that Boeing's engineering prowess is unrecoverable now, post-McDD merger?
What's the track record for huge companies successfully fixing major problems with their internal quality / engineering cultures? My impression is that usually or always the company just ends slowly dying instead. I'm thinking of IBM, and maybe Intel, GE, Boeing.
I have the impression that Microsoft has couthed up a lot since the 1990s. Idk though.
Re: Boeing CEO says planemaker could be forced to cancel 737 Max 10
#46Trash it and send some executives and managers to prison
isn't it amazing that 350 people died and years later no one has been put in prison yet?
They did prosecute someone, which looked to me like a case of throwing an underling out of the bus, but it looks like that person was acquitted by a jury:
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/boeing-test-pilot-...
Former Boeing test pilot found not guilty of deceiving FAA
A jury in Texas has found a former Boeing test pilot not guilty of deceiving federal regulators about a key flight-control system on the Boeing 737 Max jetliner
(March 2022)
Re: Boeing CEO says planemaker could be forced to cancel 737 Max 10
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
isn't it amazing that 350 people died and years later no one has been put in prison yet?
They did prosecute someone, which looked to me like a case of throwing an underling out of the bus, but it looks like that person was acquitted by a jury: https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/boeing-test-pilot-... Former Boeing test pilot found not guilty of deceiving FAA A jury in Texas has found a former Boeing test pilot not guilty of deceiving federal regulators about a key flight-control system on the Boein…
exactly, that guy was just a fall guy. If a system / organization is designed such that the fate of something as critical as an aircraft depends on ONE test pilot, that system needs to be re-assessed. All those managers / senior engineers / decision makers should be fired / fined and the worst of them should be put in prison.
Re: Boeing CEO says planemaker could be forced to cancel 737 Max 10
#48Well, yes, when you are unable or unwilling to build the product to modern safety standards, you should be forced to cancel it.
is the consensus that Boeing's engineering prowess is unrecoverable now, post-McDD merger?
At this point, they should be offering the highest salaries of any company in the aerospace industry to recruit the best talent, same way google does.
But they're not. That's... the whole problem really.
Re: Boeing CEO says planemaker could be forced to cancel 737 Max 10
#49In a way it is a good thing. They should be forced to take many steps back and look at where they bungled up. For starters, not trying to fix aerodynamic issues with software patches, and getting honest engineering back at the helm should be on the top of the list.
It's hard when your customers are requiring you to do mutually exclusive things. First, reduce fuel consumption by significant amounts, which requires changes to aerodynamics or engines (this is just physics). Second, don't make any major changes, because major changes would be too expensive for customers to implement and make the whole project not feasible. There's no "honest engineering" that will solve the problem…
I'd say the fact the regulations are there at all, led to this issue. If there wasn't, there would be nothing to 'work around', and Boeing (and Airbus) would be more free to design the planes they and their customers wanted.
As it is, we have a bunch of regulations, and obviously no greater safety; the planes designs have issues anyway, as they did here with the 737 Max.
There's certainly regulatory capture going on in Boeing too, no doubt, but that's also a point for removing the regulatory system, not a point for 'making it better', usually by adding more rules, seldom subtracting rules.
Re: Boeing CEO says planemaker could be forced to cancel 737 Max 10
#50In a way it is a good thing. They should be forced to take many steps back and look at where they bungled up. For starters, not trying to fix aerodynamic issues with software patches, and getting honest engineering back at the helm should be on the top of the list.
It's hard when your customers are requiring you to do mutually exclusive things. First, reduce fuel consumption by significant amounts, which requires changes to aerodynamics or engines (this is just physics). Second, don't make any major changes, because major changes would be too expensive for customers to implement and make the whole project not feasible. There's no "honest engineering" that will solve the problem…
But both of these issues can be solved, at a cost to...shareholders. And that's really where the problem lies. Since the merger, Boeing has been laser-focused on quarterly results and stock prices. In the short run that boosts equity valuations, but in the long run, as we've seen, it really hurts the company when it takes focus away from the product on which they run their business.