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Governor Newsom announces California will make its own insulin

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Re: Governor Newsom announces California will make its own insulin

#91
post #65
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that’a entirely fair. California is the product of good governance during the 1950s-1980s. There is public infrastructure, like good schools and universities, that needs to be laid to attract industry in the first place. California probably wouldn’t the what it is without the UC system, for example. Of course that was a very different California.

California schools system is not good.

Some of the best public elementary, middle/junior, and high schools in the country are in California. Some of the worst are as well. California as a whole has a pretty good public school system. There are certainly issues. But many of them are really just debatable trade offs. For example, the whole San Francisco ed board recall. The main issue (aside from the renaming, which really was a side show to the main event) was the proposal to eliminate merit based entry to the premier high schools. The scientific data is pretty clear that if you want to benefit the most, you should not track students based on ability (i.e., put the "gifted and talented" into special advanced programs) but rather spend your limited resources on bringing the bottom half up. However, this is "unfair" to those who could benefit from development of their above average intellectual talents. In any way you proceed, there will be winners and losers. If you have an opinion on this: vote!

Re: Governor Newsom announces California will make its own insulin

#92
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, everything in Canada is cheaper than the US…oh wait

> Yeah, everything in Canada is cheaper than the US…oh wait I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

hiddencost said something very stupid and kcplate mocked him for saying something that stupid. The specific stupid thing hiddencost said was that capitalism was inefficient.

Re: Governor Newsom announces California will make its own insulin

#93
post #83
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do state governments have to respect patents? Edit: Answering myself here, they do not: https://www.vorys.com/publications-2574.html

Yes, state governments have to respect patents. So does the federal government. However , many patents that are issued in association with a research grant include a clause that allows the government to use the patent without charge. I have no idea if any/many insulin patents are included in such clauses.

[deleted]

Re: Governor Newsom announces California will make its own insulin

#94

Sometimes I feel like this is the endgame where the US overall kind of declines but California starts managing itself better and operates almost like an independent country. Probably wishful thinking but would be great.

I can’t relate at all to that sentiment. California has got to be one of the most bloated and wasteful state governments in the entire US. High taxes and nothing to show for it. The entrenched far left seems bent on destroying the middle class, driving out business, regulating everything to death and displacing merit as a selection factor. Whatever glory Cali has— tech, entertainment, farming, weather, natural beauty…

While I respect where you are coming from, the data doesn't match your perceptions. California's governance is exceptional despite the corruption. Here's some data,

- One of the best ways to match models to reality is to see if they have predictive power, for some time now people have predicted that California is doomed, see, “California doom: Staggering $54 billion deficit looms,” https://apnews.com/article/48a9ce5ad7494d22ec0c42ac46ae9baf , but the surplus that year was a $75 B.

- Since 2006, California has cut the rate maternal mortality and women dying in childbirth by 65%, the national maternal mortality rate has increased by 50% to 70%. The impact this one data point has on people's lives cannot be overstated. More women are dying in the States at a rate 6x that of Nordic states and 3x that of Canada, and it's a trend that's increasing for most of the US. Except California. This data is from 2018, but the graph is simply staggering, https://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2017/05/propublica-mortali... and https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/220510134152-hponly20...

- Despite the reduction due to the pandemic, California has the longest lifespan in the US for men. If you are born in California, as a man, you will live to 78.4 years on average as compared to 71.7 years (and falling) in West Virginia, 76 years in Texas, 72.6 years in Kentucky, and 75.7 years in Texas.

On average, you will live 6+ to 3+ years longer than most US States if you're born in California. The same is true for women. Data, https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-1-508.pdf

This is roughly the same amount you would get from an intervention such as lifelong/prolonged caloric restriction, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3014770/

- Between 2015 and 2019, California's economy grew at a rate of 22%. For comparison, China was 26%. Germany, 15%. Japan, 16%. In December of 2021, California added 42% of all jobs in the US. Nearly half of all new jobs in the country for that month were created in California. Alone. https://mehabe.com/2021/06/14/among-the-five-largest-economi... | https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/03/11/californias-economic-recov...

- California has the highest rate of income growth in all of the US. Even when compared to Texas. Here's a comparison of the two states,

Despite a slight decline in population, California's per capita income grew at a significantly greater rate than Texas,

"Between 2000 and 2020, California’s PCI was significantly greater than both Texas and the U.S. as a whole (BEA, 2021). Both disparities grew substantially from 2015 to 2020. For example, while California’s per capita income was 20 percent higher than Texas’ in 2015, this gap surged to 30 percent just 5 years later. And this was not simply a COVID-induced phenomenon, as the rising disparity was apparent in 2019 even before the pandemic."

Between the two states, the government invests substantially more on the public in California, even when adjusting for state revenue,

"A large part of this difference between California and Texas, however, is driven by differences between the two states in GDP per capita, which is 22 percent higher in California ($79,405) than in Texas ($65,077) (BEA, 2020). Even adjusting for this, state and local governments loom much larger in California, with their spending representing 20.3 percent of the state’s GDP versus just 15.4 percent in Texas. By this metric California’s public sector is about one-third larger than in Texas, implying that the greater per capita GDP in California explains almost half of its higher state and local spending."

From the data the study concludes that this spending leads to, "it appears higher government spending in California leads to stronger student performance, better environmental and health outcomes, and safer neighborhoods than in a small government state such as Texas"

Full study, https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/tale-tw...

- We can contrast California against states like Kansas, where they've implemented low taxes and cut public spending as a part of the "Kansas Experiment", the state has gone almost bankrupt and there has been no subsequent increase in GDP growth. The experiment is widely regarded as a failure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_experiment

There are areas where California doesn't do well, such as homelessness, but by every conceivably metric, California has exceeded other US states. Surely some of this has to do with governance.

If I was to sum up my position here, it's this. You get what you pay for.

Re: Governor Newsom announces California will make its own insulin

#95
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich people love California, and all the other blue states with high income tax: https://www.statista.com/statistics/294941/largest-ratio-mil...

Because they are nice places to live with strong economies and lots of amenities. Not because they have a lower tax burden.

yes but the point is that they love CA DESPITE the tax burden. In other words, tax them. They will come anyway because it is great there. And the taxes will pay for ever more lovely things like nature preserves and clean air and water and decent schools (yes they are pretty dang good in CA) and art, museums, science, tech, etc. And this will be a virtuous cycle (as it already has been).

Re: Governor Newsom announces California will make its own insulin

#96
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t relate at all to that sentiment. California has got to be one of the most bloated and wasteful state governments in the entire US. High taxes and nothing to show for it. The entrenched far left seems bent on destroying the middle class, driving out business, regulating everything to death and displacing merit as a selection factor. Whatever glory Cali has— tech, entertainment, farming, weather, natural beauty…

I don’t think that’a entirely fair. California is the product of good governance during the 1950s-1980s. There is public infrastructure, like good schools and universities, that needs to be laid to attract industry in the first place. California probably wouldn’t the what it is without the UC system, for example. Of course that was a very different California.

The period you mentioned is one of the most prosperous periods in history. It is easy to look good with everything in your favor.

Re: Governor Newsom announces California will make its own insulin

#97
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t relate at all to that sentiment. California has got to be one of the most bloated and wasteful state governments in the entire US. High taxes and nothing to show for it. The entrenched far left seems bent on destroying the middle class, driving out business, regulating everything to death and displacing merit as a selection factor. Whatever glory Cali has— tech, entertainment, farming, weather, natural beauty…

I can't claim you are wrong. But I do question when the evidence is so murky. A lot of what folks think they want in efficient systems are systems that would fail because of how efficient they were run. That is, what evidence do you have that the success is in spite of government? Is there a comparable government or system that is doing better? Why? Or why not?

Bullet train: despite earthquakes and mountains, Japan runs a pretty decent network of high speed trains. Politics, well documented by the papers, show how a high speed train had repeated stops added to it, and was slowed down in California to the speed of a regular train while costing much more.

Despite adding an additional 1.0% tax to fund mental health, homelessness has only increased in California. Efforts to reduce prop 13 inflated property values are feeble at best. Senior and junior water rights, where senior land holders can extract as much water as they want over juniors, based on an arbitrary date chosen in law, have not been reformed. CalPers is very poorly funded compared to other states.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of California's success is due to government. Banning non-competes and funding a strong system of community colleges and state universities for example. But other states are 'kinda' adopting non-compete bans and the state has cut funding years ago to those institutions, which makes me question the value of my tax dollars when a house built just after WW2 costs over a million dollars, K-12 is below the national average, and the public universities here cost much more than well regarded ones in other states. The state is not dealing with it's problems.

I left a while ago and I feel better for it.

Edit: grammar and a few words.

Re: Governor Newsom announces California will make its own insulin

#98
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a mix. California has at least some reasons for why it is a tech haven: non-competes unenforceable; well-supported state university system California also gets a lot wrong that interferes with tech: prop 13 and friends, housing policy, incredible corruption, massive local conservatism But California is most like America as a microcosm: horrifically corrupt but such a powerhouse that it resembles a leviathan that…

Non-competes is an interesting point, I always wonder how much it impacts innovation. Probably very hard to measure and isolate this impact. Current tech scene seems to be a combination of few things: remnants of semiconductor industry, great climate and beautiful outdoors. College system obviously is a factor as well.

non-competes is huge. I've personally been involved in a couple of startups in another country that got hammered by non-compete issues (once even just an implied non-compete). The fact that smart motivated folks can just up and leave a sinking ship and start a debt-free competitor next door relatively easily is a gigantic advantage that is absent is most jurisdictions.

Re: Governor Newsom announces California will make its own insulin

#99
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the type of insulin you want to make, but if you want to be at the cutting edge it would likely cost around a billion dollars. You have to avoid the intellectual property minefield on the manufacturing side. The production of insulin and its delivery mechanisms are heavily patented and the big pharma companies will shut you down if you infringe on anything. If you want a reference for this happening you ca…

No one in their right mind would build manufacturing from scratch. Contract manufacturers exist to do relatively cheap design work in exchange for access to their expensive-to-build (but cheap to use by comparison) manufacturing facilities. I can't speak to drug manufacturing, but I know from experience that when it comes to medical devices, you save almost 10x in up front fixed cost by outsourcing, like California i…

With regard to insulin 3 companies control 90% of worldwide production. I'm not aware of a third party manufacturer that can actually produce modern insulins at scale. Even if they existed, they still have to work around the issues previously stated. It is unlikely that you would be able to partner with the big players as they have no incentive to help a competitor and they are already running at full capacity. You probably don't have any other option than to build it yourself.

Medical devices are frankly a lot simpler than making new drugs. (I know they are still exceptionally challenging)

Re: Governor Newsom announces California will make its own insulin

#100
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because pharmaceutical research is hitting a wall in many areas, and companies are “catching and killing” generic manufacturers specifically to extract more revenue from long invented products. Government should absolutely play in this space. Hell, one of the primary anti-fungal creams (NYStatin) was developed by a female researcher and state employee in the 1960s.

But it’s not a new insulin, it’s just some manufacturer. Plenty of generic insulin’s exist already. Why build a new plant just to make something that’s already sold?

Government has no profit motive and the existing sellers are not competing on price efficiently. The CA Government can sell at cost plus and force the other players to lower their price.
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