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Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

thedrive.com

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Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#301

Post by pas »

petilon wrote: post #77

Meanwhile Cruise just obtained permission to charge passengers for driverless rides in San Francisco [1]. Cruise has been cleared to charge for rides in vehicles that will have no other people in them besides the passengers. There will be no back-up human driver present to take control if something goes wrong. Why is Tesla so far behind? Tesla is generating these autopilot mishap news on such a regular basis that it…

Tesla is behind because they had a fucking big pile of C/C++ + machine learned models and wanted to brute force their way to an acceptable quality.

In a recentish Lex Fridman podcast Elon finally talks about how they need to solve the hard part which turns out to be ... drum roll .. world modeling! (Kids in a school zone or behind a school bus or something like that was the example I think.)

Who would have thought that without a model that can provide a consistent "abstract model" of the world it's hard to fit incoming noisy sensor data?

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#302

Post by ahahahahah »

jliptzin wrote: post #250
LtWorf wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get way more distracted if you are doing nothing rather than if you're actually doing something. So I'd expect the reaction times for people to stop an autopilot from killing them are actually much higher than the reaction times of a driver.

Then they should not be using autopilot. When I have autopilot engaged I am way more alert. Also you aren’t “doing nothing” when you have autopilot engaged. The car annoys you if it doesn’t sense any force on the wheel within 10 seconds and even if you are looking at your phone (or anywhere other than the road) the car annoys you too (yes there’s a camera in the cabin looking at you when you’re on autopilot).

So what you mean is that Tesla should be using trained safety drivers like real AV companies do? Also, to be clear, you are either lying or misinformed about the behavior if autopilot as far as detecting engaged driving goes.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#303

Post by ahahahahah »

tintor wrote: post #142
petilon wrote: post #77

Meanwhile Cruise just obtained permission to charge passengers for driverless rides in San Francisco [1]. Cruise has been cleared to charge for rides in vehicles that will have no other people in them besides the passengers. There will be no back-up human driver present to take control if something goes wrong. Why is Tesla so far behind? Tesla is generating these autopilot mishap news on such a regular basis that it…

Why do you believe that Tesla is behind? Tesla is selling a large number of vehicles with FSD, used across a large operational design domain. Cruise isn't selling cars. Small fleet, that can operate at limited hours at night, at limited locations in San Francisco. Small scale and limited operational design domain compared to Tesla's.

Because as much as Tesla marketing wants us to believe, FSD is anything but. Tesla is so ridiculously far behind real AV companies that I must assume that you're a paid shill or an absolute idiot.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#304

Post by ahahahahah »

vardump wrote: post #282
enragedcacti wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are numerous FSD Beta crashes according to NHTSA complaints, including ones that occurred prior to Elon tweeting that none had occurred. https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1539607989937741825

Taylor Ogan is very biased against Tesla, and has a strong financial interest for Tesla to fail (TSLAQ). He's purportedly long BYD. Not saying these incidents aren't real, but I'd really really want confirm these from a reliable source.

What a dumb comment. It literally consists of just a claim that someone is invested in a competitor and then the implicit association that of course anything they say, regardless of how true and damning it is, just be ignored. Only the truest cultists and the dumbest others would buy it.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#305

Post by LtWorf »

jliptzin wrote: post #250
LtWorf wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get way more distracted if you are doing nothing rather than if you're actually doing something. So I'd expect the reaction times for people to stop an autopilot from killing them are actually much higher than the reaction times of a driver.

Then they should not be using autopilot. When I have autopilot engaged I am way more alert. Also you aren’t “doing nothing” when you have autopilot engaged. The car annoys you if it doesn’t sense any force on the wheel within 10 seconds and even if you are looking at your phone (or anywhere other than the road) the car annoys you too (yes there’s a camera in the cabin looking at you when you’re on autopilot).

> When I have autopilot engaged I am way more alert

Hm… so what's the point?

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#306

Post by enragedcacti »

vardump wrote: post #282
enragedcacti wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are numerous FSD Beta crashes according to NHTSA complaints, including ones that occurred prior to Elon tweeting that none had occurred. https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1539607989937741825

Taylor Ogan is very biased against Tesla, and has a strong financial interest for Tesla to fail (TSLAQ). He's purportedly long BYD. Not saying these incidents aren't real, but I'd really really want confirm these from a reliable source.

I can understand that concern which is why I referenced a post of his that is copied straight from publicly available NHTSA complaints.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#307

Post by dcchambers »

D-Coder wrote: post #291
sirsinsalot wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with these AI systems is that the corner cases in the real-world can be fatal. Humans are pretty good, on the whole, at dealing with corner cases.

On the other hand, each human needs to individually figure out (or be taught) how to deal with each corner case. When an AI system learns it, the company can "teach" the entire fleet all at once.

You can't make an apples-to-apples comparison between humans and the current generation of "AI".

A human does not need to be taught how to handle every edge case because we have the ability and intuition to think on the spot and create solutions on the fly. It's incredible how fast our brain can take in information and formulate a plan.

Meanwhile, if an "AI" has not specifically been trained against a certain variable or situation, it will have no idea how to handle it. It can't actually create a solution like a real human brain can.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#308

Post by ncmncm »

thomaskcr wrote: post #284
electric_mayhem wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Straw man argument. Or, you know, maybe highly specific to lazy, edge-case idiots. Autopilot and fsd still both specifically require an attentive driver. Responsible adults who understand the systems will use them appropriately- and that might mean “not at all” in unusual/chaotic conditions. For the rest, there’s Darwin awards.

"People who believe the system they paid 10-12k for called 'full self driving' should be able to drive itself are idiots" is a pretty special class of Elon bootlicking. People who understand the system don't buy it because they realize it's a scam, everyone who bought it was duped. The most valuable thing at Tesla is the list of rubes they have.

Many of whom are well equipped to know better.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#309

Post by ncmncm »

discordance wrote: post #188
jeffbee wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the most advanced ML learning system ever Imagine believing this.

I can believe this but also believe that our "most advanced ML systems" aren't up to the autonomous driving mark yet.

You would have to believe that Tesla, particularly, had that system, and not Google or DoD.

Tesla has something much more valuable: pigeons and dupes.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#310

Post by ncmncm »

powerbroker wrote: post #271
FireBeyond wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk, every year for the last seven years now: "Full Self Driving is coming, this year." Not even close.

This is how he holds at bay the two factions of lawyers: 1) Those ready to file a misrepresentation or breach of warranty contract claims; 2) Those ready to file a products liability, wrongful death or failure to warn tort lawsuit.

No. It is how he suckers people into paying for it now.

Fending off lawyers is based on the fact it it was only Musk who said it, courts recognizing that only an idiot would believe him.

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