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Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

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Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#111

Post by silicon2401 »

agent008t wrote: post #85
honkdaddy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone's going to argue with you about the points you listed out. People who genuinely want children don't go through exercises like this; the fact you've made this post at all makes it abundantly clear that your decision has already been made.

I disagree. For example, let us consider someone who has not considered getting a cat or thinks that there are no benefits to living with a cat. They asked people living with cats for advice, just like OP. A reasonable cat housemate would not say "people who genuinely want cats don't go through exercises like this; the fact you've made this post at all makes it abundantly clear that your decision has already been mad…

The OP somewhat hinted at it in his question: lots of people's lives are made worse by having kids, but they wouldn't be able to live life if they accepted that reality. Society would shame them, their family would shame them, their children would be hurt, and they would have to live life knowing they made a mistake. It's easier to believe that it's 100% a good thing without any downsides and everybody should do it. The giveaway is not that they say everyone should try it (which also applies to cats, travel, etc), the giveaway is when they say nobody would be better without kids. That's a ridiculously improbable claim, but it's the basis for most people who say everyone should do it

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#112

Post by silicon2401 »

david422 wrote: post #63

I think that, even though it's an odd question, it's a fair question. But I'll try to answer a different question: Having kids means that your life is no longer yours - your kids become the primary focus. When you cannot complete a 20 minute task uninterrupted because your kids require your attention. Or the only free time you get is at 9pm and you're ready for bed. At least for the first few years. So if you are ask…

> Yes, there are benefits, but if you haven't reached the point of wanting a dog simply because you want a dog, then getting a dog probably isn't the right choice.

Do you make all major life decisions in this way, i.e. just wanting something because you want it? Would you encourage someone who's violent and abusive have kids just because they want them, too? It's a genuine question because it's shockingly unrelatable to me. Everything from my diet to my career to my friends and hobbies goes through a cost-benefit analysis. This sometimes surprises people, but I'm surprised how often people are stuck in situations like an abusive relationship precisely because they act on emotional impulse rather than analyzing whether or not they should want something.

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#113

Post by silicon2401 »

Balgair wrote: post #79
sforza wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But arguably if you remain childfree you'll be able to throw money at the problem - you can afford a luxury nursing home.

I've had a few extended family members who tried the 'money will take care of me' route. So, small sample size warning. It doesn't work out well. The people in the nursing homes/hospice still are only their to be paid. They don't care about you deep down. So, things like bedsores are allowed to fester, cancer diagnoses come a bit later than you'd like, loneliness sets it (especially during covid), your diapers aren't…

> If you don't have someone watching out for you that really does care for you, you're going to be treated poorly. Especially if you develop any mental problems in your old age.

Kids won't always do this. In fact it's possible for kids to be the ones treating you poorly in your old age, and it happens more often than people like to admit.

> You don't have to have kiddos, but you do have to have someone out there nearby who really will get out of bed at 3am for the third time this month to come help you when you're blind and demented to physically lift you up and wipe your incontinence off.

Again, you're making a huge assumption that if you have kids, they will be caring. Maybe you've never seen people whose kids are nasty or simply uncaring, but anybody who has kids is making that gamble.

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#114

Post by honkdaddy »

agent008t wrote: post #85
honkdaddy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone's going to argue with you about the points you listed out. People who genuinely want children don't go through exercises like this; the fact you've made this post at all makes it abundantly clear that your decision has already been made.

I disagree. For example, let us consider someone who has not considered getting a cat or thinks that there are no benefits to living with a cat. They asked people living with cats for advice, just like OP. A reasonable cat housemate would not say "people who genuinely want cats don't go through exercises like this; the fact you've made this post at all makes it abundantly clear that your decision has already been mad…

That's a good analogue, maybe the OP will find some wisdom in what you wrote. Personally though, after reading her responses, I think she's just here to argue. Maybe a cat would be a better option after all :)

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#115

Post by silicon2401 »

the_third_wave wrote: post #46

It sounds like you don't want to have children and are trying to justify that choice. While I can unequivocally state that I never had any regret having - as in fathering and raising - children I will not try to convince you of the error in your ways. If you don't want to have children, don't have them - it will give you the opportunity to dedicate your life to yourself and it will spare your not-to-be-born children…

Have you ever imagined that someone who's infertile or lacks reproductive organs could be capable of equalling your worth as a human being? Or do you assume that in the absence of children, human beings are only capable of a life of hedonism and self-indulgence? Your comment is a great example of the unabashed stigmatization and intolerance towards people who don't have kids by many of those who do, who at the same time elevate themselves into something like saints just because they raised kids

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#116

Post by sforza »

silicon2401 wrote: post #106
Someone1234 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a response from someone who has been in too many online discussions, and knows when the question/supposition is pinned in such a way to essentially make good faith discussion surrounding it impossible. In this case the OP made a bunch of claims which they cannot support, and then wants people to defend those claims/find counter-benefits to offset them. They've essentially pinned the discussion so that it wast…

What an oddly paranoid take on the thread. OP literally just said he's looking for new perspectives, because X has led him to his current perspective. I disagree completely that he did anything in poor faith; I think that you're just disregarding the question of "What are the benefits to having kids" outright, rather than take it seriously, which is my response as someone who has been in many online and in-person dis…

Indeed. And why did the mods flag my thread?

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#117

Post by AnimalMuppet »

> I'm less interested in parents trying to rationalize what deep down they know was a bad decision, the perpetual "oh but I'd do it all over again" thing when clearly their life is a lot of worse and they're full of regret.

Kids have grown me as a person. They have made me much less selfish and self-centered than I was. (Kind of by necessity...) I am a better human being for having kids.

But if you've got a selfish and self-centered mindset, and you want me to justify having kids within that selfish mindset, I can't do it. "It will help you grow into someone less self-centered" isn't a reason that a person thinking in a self-centered way will accept.

But, for the record: It wasn't a bad decision. My life is not a lot worse, and I'm not full of regret. And don't presume that I'm rationalizing - that's you trying to rationalize my life to make it fit in your existing view.

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#118

Post by david422 »

silicon2401 wrote: post #112
david422 wrote: post #63

I think that, even though it's an odd question, it's a fair question. But I'll try to answer a different question: Having kids means that your life is no longer yours - your kids become the primary focus. When you cannot complete a 20 minute task uninterrupted because your kids require your attention. Or the only free time you get is at 9pm and you're ready for bed. At least for the first few years. So if you are ask…

> Yes, there are benefits, but if you haven't reached the point of wanting a dog simply because you want a dog, then getting a dog probably isn't the right choice. Do you make all major life decisions in this way, i.e. just wanting something because you want it? Would you encourage someone who's violent and abusive have kids just because they want them, too? It's a genuine question because it's shockingly unrelatable…

Wanting something is the prerequisite for then continuing further. Kids aren't something you can do a cost-benefit analysis for and then change your mind.

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#119

Post by honkdaddy »

sforza wrote: post #116
silicon2401 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an oddly paranoid take on the thread. OP literally just said he's looking for new perspectives, because X has led him to his current perspective. I disagree completely that he did anything in poor faith; I think that you're just disregarding the question of "What are the benefits to having kids" outright, rather than take it seriously, which is my response as someone who has been in many online and in-person dis…

Indeed. And why did the mods flag my thread?

Flags aren't done by the mods, they're applied by other users who find that the post or your conduct go against the spirit of the site.

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#120

Post by mcphage »

agent008t wrote: post #102
mcphage wrote: post #68

Because kids are awesome. It's great to watch them grow, and learn, and discover joy in the world. And watching them experience things for the first time brings back the happiness you felt when you first experienced those same things. Raising them can be challenging, but kids themselves are great. "What's in it for me" isn't really a great question, though, since it's not about you.

It obviously is about 'you', given that the children in question do not exist yet.

The original question was—"what are the benefits to having children"... specifically, "what are the benefits [to me] to having children". That's what I'm responding to. "What do I get out of it" isn't the best way to evaluate having kids. You get something out of it, sure, but... it kinda misses the forest for the trees.
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