Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

thedrive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 328 posts

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#181

Post by paulcole »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #11
bananapub wrote: post #5

it's absolutely surreal to me that 1) this is allowed to be used on public roads and 2) that Tesla is permitted to call whatever they've invented "self driving" or "autonomous".

I really don't understand how Tesla markets something as "Autopilot" and "Full Self-Driving" and then also says "oh it's beta" and "you must be ready to take control of the car at any second".

It’s not autopilot, it’s Autopilot. They’re making up their own branded feature called Autopilot which is nothing like what any reasonable person would consider to be autopilot.

If you go back through the years here, you’ll see increasing care they use with their language:

https://web.archive.org/web/*/Tesla.com/autopilot

Look at the snake oil they were peddling in 2016:

> All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver.

Not only was this clearly false in 2016, it’s clearly false today, nearly 6 years later.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#182

Post by wutbrodo »

ncmncm wrote: post #172
wutbrodo wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Supposedly the "important" people are still employed. For now I don't know if you're unaware of this or omitting it to mislead others, but everyone laid off were data labelers. This is completely consistent with a strategy shift to preserve capital: in-house annotation isn't that common for AV companies anyway. And data labelers are 100% the most "unimportant" in-house workers: their job is literally to be as consi…

The news report said "mostly". So, who is being dishonest?

Other coverage, like CNN, made it sound like the layoffs were concentrated along annotators. But your comment made me double-check the original reporting[1], which AFAICT says that the layoffs were both data evaluators and annotators.

Granting you the pedantry point here, I hereby happily amend my comment to refer to "data [evaluators] and annotators", with zero impact on my point.

> So, who is being dishonest?

Not sure if you're actually familiar with the definition of the word? Being potentially technically wrong on a pt that doesn't change the overall claim is enormously different from the core of a claim being wrong (eg the implication that "supposedly important people haven't been laid off" when they demonstrably focused the layoffs on the most commoditizable and replaceable labor in the industry).

[1] https://archive.ph/i6BCD

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#183

Post by salawat »

yladiz wrote: post #129
cloutchaser wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point should be you don't. You are giving live feedback to the most advanced ML learning system ever (probably). Which hopefully in a few years will actually work. You are not (currently) using an autonomous car. If you think so you are an idiot.

> You are not (currently) using an autonomous car. If you think so you are an idiot. Let's define autonomous as self driving. According to their marketing page[1]: > Tesla cars come standard with advanced hardware capable of providing Autopilot features, and full self-driving capabilities—through software updates designed to improve functionality over time. So it has capabilities of autonomous driving, which means a…

>Unless I'm an idiot for trusting what their marketing page tells me, of course.

Oh, you sweet summer child...

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#184

Post by [deleted] »

thedevelopnik wrote: post #61
makeworld wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man, they're not using lidar? I had no idea, that's crazy they're just putting cars on the road just cameras and AI. Jeez.

Elon thinks that because humans can do all this with two eyes his cars should be able to do it with just cameras. Literal truth.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#185

Post by spike021 »

synu wrote: post #138
deng wrote: post #80

Actually, that steering into the oncoming train is just one of several severe instances in that video: * Almost driving right into a barrier because road is closed: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=426 * Choosing the wrong lane and getting confused: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=666 * Trying to run a red light, right into traffic: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=732 * Stopping in the middle of an intersection without r…

That is terrifying! I try to stay away from Teslas I see on the road because they are completely unpredictable. I think I'd prefer being near a poor driver with their attention on the controls to Autopilot with a poor driver not paying attention. Any test on public roads of a system that performs like this should have a professional team actively, directly monitoring it. Not just any rando who happened to be able to…

The number of times I see Teslas suddenly swerve partially into the next lane or stomp the brakes for no reason on the freeway with nobody around them is ridiculous.

To top things off, one time I saw this happening on 280 in the Bay Area and I decided for safety's sake to pass them. I looked inside and it was a baby in a car seat in the back and a guy at the driver seat with both hands off the wheel holding onto a phone that he was absorbed by.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#186

Post by nazka »

ra7 wrote: post #136
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just can’t understand why you’d give up control to a system that’s clearly still in beta. The cost of failure is way too high to take the risk.

Because they're led to believe all this public beta "testing" actually does something to improve the system. So they go out on roads, enable FSD and click the feedback button when it makes a mistake. It's pure theatre as it does nothing to a system fundamentally poor.

And the beauty of not advertising that if an accident is coming the system deactivates itself to avoid any legal responsibilities. Autopilot that deactivates itself. Nice

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#187

Post by verisimi »

redsid wrote: post #174

Personal anecdote. I was behind a Tesla on a bit of mountainous stretch (single lane) on my drive home on a Sunday eve - so literally no traffic, and noticed the Tesla was painfully slow and almost at standstill. I realized it was on autopilot and literally sticking to the speed limits although the driver could have easily done at least 10mph over. The big truth that dawned on me was, here in northeast US with mostly…

I actually think that dropping the speed limits is part of the strategy (in urban roads near speeds have been changed from 30 to 20) is to make the roads safer for self-driving cars.

So, I think self-driving is going to be a slow experience.

Maybe once everyone has been slowed down, they'll bring out a premium self-driving product, where is you are rich your car is allowed to move more quickly.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#188

Post by discordance »

jeffbee wrote: post #159
cloutchaser wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point should be you don't. You are giving live feedback to the most advanced ML learning system ever (probably). Which hopefully in a few years will actually work. You are not (currently) using an autonomous car. If you think so you are an idiot.

> the most advanced ML learning system ever Imagine believing this.

I can believe this but also believe that our "most advanced ML systems" aren't up to the autonomous driving mark yet.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#189

Post by cameronh90 »

mellavora wrote: post #119
jaxn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think of it in terms of I am still piloting the vehicle, but FSD is executing the maneuvers. This means that I am able to focus on the bigger picture (looking further forward, paying attention to what is going on in all lanes, etc). I am a MUCH safer driver with autopilot/FSD than without. So, to your devil's advocate, I am sure I would blame myself if my family member died while driving my car no matter what the c…

> I am still piloting the vehicle, but FSD is executing the maneuvers. Look, there are some things I really like about your reply, and I applaud your approach to this. My question is this: If you are the pilot, how do you communicate with the FSD to have it execute the maneuvers? What is the command interface? What is the level of "manouver" ("drive to the grocery store" vs "angle the front wheels 7 degrees to the le…

> What if it is engaged and still decides to run a red light?

The Teslas don't drive particularly aggressively, so you're quite aware ahead of time if it's not slowing down to stop for a red light.

> Or to suddenly brake to a full stop on a highway so you get rear-ended?

This is harder to deal with as, if it happened, it could be very sudden. That being said, if someone rear ends you for stopping, it's their fault (unless you braked in bad faith, like a brake check). Not that it would make you feel much better if you got injured or killed in such an incident.

On the other hand, many manufacturers have automatic emergency braking systems that occasionally incorrectly brake, and humans occasionally incorrectly emergency brake too. I have emergency braked due to a plastic bag blowing across the highway. Tesla on the whole seems to perform well compared to most vehicles AEB systems.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#190

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

salawat wrote: post #165
rsynnott wrote: post #52

This feels like an escalation from the usual cars and bollards and things. Possibly The Algorithm has become bored, and we can expect a series of robocars menacing more and more unlikely vehicles, culminating in a spectacular near-miss with a zeppelin.

A Tesla on Autopilot took out a helicopter today... Elon Musk commented "That was totally rad, and his engineers were in the process of attempting to replicate the finding as a new "Vigilante" mode to become available next Thursday, probably."

I’m not going to be mad at the CEO with a sense of humor. No one was hurt, seems like they’ll pay for it. Pretty rare scenario.

I feel like we’ve lost a lot of our will to fail, and also joke about it.

Post reply on HN