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France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

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Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#111

Post by WaxProlix »

justin66 wrote: post #56
arcticbull wrote: post #2

They're not banning veggie 'steaks' and 'sausages', they're saying they need a new name. Title is inaccurate, worth changing @dang.

I almost wrote an insistent comment about how literally no one could be confused by that story title. Then I scrolled past the comment by the guy who was "tricked into buying vegan sausages," and now I just don't know.

He's showing his ass all over these threads too, talking about that time he accidentally bought the wrong thing and how the vegan cabal is out to get him now. There should be a limit to the number of times an anecdote can be posted in a single story's comment section.

At least it's funny in this case.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#112

Post by autarch »

ratsmack wrote: post #104

I find it funny that vegans would even want to associate with food names of products that they abhor. Many vegans say that have never eaten meat, so why would they want 'steak' or 'sausage' fake meat?

I've been vegan for c. 27 years and I like these products. I grew up eating meat and dairy, and I still like the flavor and mouth feel, but I hate the cruelty.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#113

Post by burnished »

xdennis wrote: post #26
briandoll wrote: post #22

In the US, the dairy industry tried this and thankfully lost (in California): The Animal Legal Defense Fund represented Miyoko’s Kitchen in its challenge of unconstitutional restrictions placed on plant-based dairy products’ marketing and labeling Miyoko makes vegan cheese and brought the California Department of Food and Agriculture to court to challenge their ban on the term "cheese" to represent her products. She…

That would be completely fair, assuming the reverse is true as well. That is, being able to sell real cheese as "vegan cheese" to trick vegans into eating it. I was tricked into buying vegan sausages. They don't deserve protection either.

I get you're being outraged to be funny, but in seriousness no you aren't allowed to trick people into eating something they do not want to. Its important to have standards about clear communication on this, its easy enough to cause harm through accident or honest mistake let alone intentional malice.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#114

Post by herpderperator »

tpmx wrote: post #13

It's getting ridiculous here in Sweden. Actual product names (they tend to use English, sometimes with intentional misspellings to get around regulations, I assume): "Vegan Grated Ch se" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_large_2x_v1,f_auto/731024... ) "Roast Beaf - Plant-based cold cut" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_large_2x_v1,f_auto/735003... ) "Parveggio - grated" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_lar…

Is it not possible to put heart emojis in HN comments?

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#115

Post by sarsway »

tjr225 wrote: post #60

If you’ve ever been tricked into eating vegan or plant based meat alternatives based on packaging alone, you might be a moron.

The problem is not people being tricked, but vegan food simply needs proper names. "Vegan steak" is not meat, so what it? What is vegan cheese? Could be anything. It's not very descriptive. When you see seitan or tofu, you know what you're getting.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#116

Post by JoshTriplett »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #48
markstos wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market wants both. Someone just transitioning from may be explicitly looking for a plant-based version of what they've been eating. Someone raised vegetarian or who hasn't eaten meat in a long time may repulsed by the thought of eating meat has no interest in names that remind them of eating animals.

What sucks is I think the clones are terrible introductions to vegetarian food compared to the real deals. Screw a fake chicken nugget and ketchup, give people a falafel ball and yogurt sauce. The best vegetarian food there is makes no attempt to be fake meat, it stands on its own.

I enjoy falafel, and I also enjoy Impossible sausage and grounds. The latter works nicely in spaghetti or stroganoff; the former does not. I like having a wide variety of options.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#117

Post by richardw »

xdennis wrote: post #33
ggm wrote: post #23

This debate won't end in a hurry. We've been arguing about what beer is since the German beer laws and before. British Sausages cause hilarity in Europe. The idea that definitionally we can state a-priori what is or is not the current meaning of a term when language itself is plastic is kind of broken because the distinction between Cows, Cattle, Beef, Veal, Bison, Oxen, Bullock and Bull, Buffalo and Bison and Cow, G…

You're conflating metaphors with obfuscation. For example, coconut milk is named so simply because it's a white liquid. It's not trying to be a replacement for milk, or trying to confuse people, it's just a metaphor. But vegan milk, sausages, etc, are all meant to be as similar to the real things as possible so as to cause confusion.

They’re meant to be the same in what we value about eating them but not the same in how they’re produced. Same taste, no death.

For a long time the taste couldn’t compare for any product. The fact that the pressure is building to keep the death part can only mean the taste is good enough for enough people that buying habits are changing.

I can see the protection of local business, and France has a strong farming and taste leadership history, but this change towards plant meat is inevitable and good for the world as a whole. Countries can innovate or end up losing this battle and only importing fake meat tech.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#118

Post by autarch »

k8si wrote: post #53
xdennis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be completely fair, assuming the reverse is true as well. That is, being able to sell real cheese as "vegan cheese" to trick vegans into eating it. I was tricked into buying vegan sausages. They don't deserve protection either.

I imagine this was probably user error on your part. The vegan cheese is usually on the other end of the grocery store from the real cheese, and also usually says 'vegan' prominently, and also there are only like 2-3 brands that make vegan cheese (Miyoko, Daiya, maybe 1 other?). And vegans still usually have to read the ingredients to make sure. Non-vegans could probably do the same if it were that important.

> there are only like 2-3 brands that make vegan cheese (Miyoko, Daiya, maybe 1 other?)

Off the top of my head:

Miyoko's, Daiya, Kite Hill, Violife, Forager, Field Roast (Chao), Nuts for Cheese, Dr. Cow, Vtopian, Parmela Creamery

And with a bit of googling:

Moocho (from Tofurky), GoVeggie!, Follow Your Heart (how'd I forget them?), Treeline, So Delicious, Koko Dairy Free, Vitalite, Sheese (hard to find in the US, I think), New Roots, Tofutti (ick), Kinda Co., Cheeze & Thank You, Darë, Catalyst Creamery, Moo No More, RIND, SriMu, Virgin Cheese, Reina Royal Vegan Cuisine

Ok, you get the point.

To be fair, a number of the brands in the second list are niche artisanal products you can only get either directly from the vendor, at niche shops like a vegan cheese shop, or online from a place like Vegan Essentials.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#119

Post by mmastrac »

Natsu wrote: post #88
xdennis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is, consumers aren't actually confused. Nonsense! I was tricked. They: * make the products look like real sausages and cheese * sell them in the same packages * label them in large letters as the real thing * write "vegan" in small letters * put them next to the real things It's all done to trick people.

They do this with eye drops, too. If you're not careful, you'll get homeopathic eye drops which are just water. And it's hard to see tiny print when your eyes are sore and they sell them in the pharmacy, next to real medicine. I'm still not sure what "apis" is, but I hesitate to put anything related to bees in my eyes, given that this is a common allergen and I'm allergic to enough things already. One can only hope t…

As long as they don't dilute it so much that it becomes a fatal toxic dose!

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#120

Post by snickerbockers »

ratsmack wrote: post #104

I find it funny that vegans would even want to associate with food names of products that they abhor. Many vegans say that have never eaten meat, so why would they want 'steak' or 'sausage' fake meat?

Their customer-base isn't just vegans, it's also people who aren't vegan but will often eat foods that are.
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