Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

metaphysic.ai

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 169 posts

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#61

Post by BoorishBears »

bberrry wrote: post #40
jkaptur wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't this bridge crossed when Photoshop became popular?

It takes some level of skill to produce a convincing Photoshopped image.

Does that matter when they stakes are as high as these arguments always claim?

If we're doomsaying about a "post-truth society", we're talking about high-stakes society-scaled skullduggery.

If you're aiming for that level of disruption, easy deepfakes vs hard video/photo editing is not an issue, getting people to trust your made up chain of custody is.

-

This is like when people worry about general AI becoming self-aware and enslaving mankind... the "boring version" of the danger is already happening: ML models being trained on biased data are getting embedded in products that are core to our society (policing, credit ratings, etc.), and that's really dangerous.

Likewise, people worry about being able to easily make fake news, when the real danger is people not being equipped to evaluate the trustworthiness of a source... and that's already happening.

You don't even need a deepfake, you tweet that so and so said X, write a fake article saying they said X, amplify it all with some bots, and suddenly millions of people believe you.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#62

Post by toss1 »

WanderPanda wrote: post #58
RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

I think society will adapt within 1 generation. The tech is already there (signing messages with asymmetric encryption)

And how many use or will use the tech, and how many of those will use it competently, and how many of those are competent to validate and know that their checking technology has not been compromised (e.g., hacking or distributing bad authenticity checkers and/or certs like hacking or distributing bad crypto-wallets)?

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#63

Post by gadders »

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

>> There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen

There are also those that wholeheartedly believe Trump colluded with Russia to win the 2016 election, or that the Steele dossier was factual.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#64

Post by narrator »

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

Surprise Plot Twist: Maybe we're already living in a post-truth society and you are still sure you know what the truth is. How would you even know that what you were ferociously defending as the truth wasn't a lie? What makes you think you're not smart enough to not fall for lies?

Largely, I think most people's means of finding the truth is just to take a vote of the information sources they find credible and go with whatever they say. I was talking with some friends about the California propositions a while back. Some of them were not clear cut which way we should vote on them. Instead of discussing the actual issue, people just wanted to know what various authority figures thought. These were not dumb people I was talking to, and I used to remember an era in the 90s maybe where you could actually have a reasoned debate and come to the truth that way. It seems that's obsolete these days since nobody seems to agree on the basic facts about anything.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#65

Post by wildmanx »

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

> I don't think we'll have the ability to handle this kind of tech responsibly.

Makes you also think whether anybody from the Hacker News crowd working on any contributing tech is acting ethically responsibly. For myself, I have answered this question with "no", which rules out many jobs for me, but at least my kids won't eventually look me in the eye and ask "how could you?"

Sure it's cool tech. But so was what eventually brought us nuclear war heads.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#67

Post by GuB-42 »

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

There has never been a truth society.

This tech will certainly be used to frame someone for a crime, like I am sure Photoshop was used in such a way, and thousands of other techniques. And modern technology offers counters. It is an arms race but because of the sheer amount of data that is collected, I think that truth is more accessible than ever. The more data you have, the harder it is to fake and keep consistent.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#68

Post by VanillaCafe »

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

The real problem isn't the veracity of the information, but the consensus protocol we use to agree on what's true. Before the internet, we were more likely to debate with their neighbors to come to an understanding. Now, with the large bubbles we can find ourselves in, afforded by the internet social media, we can find a community to agree on anything, true or not. It's that lack of challenge that allows false information to flourish and is the real problem we need to solve.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#69

Post by jayd16 »

fxtentacle wrote: post #16
RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

I believe we'll go back to trusting local experts that you can meet in person to confirm that they are not a bot. Because anything online will be known to be untrustworthy. Most blogs, chat groups and social media posts will be spam bots. And it'll be impossible for the average person to tell the difference between chatting with a bot and chatting with a human. But humans crave social connections and intimate physica…

When you say "everything online" do you mean every untrusted source? Surely the genie is out of the bottle on communication over the web. That local source will have a website. Because of that I feel like we'll always just have to be vigilant, just like we always should have been. After all, local scams still exist. Real humans are behind the bots.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#70

Post by hutzlibu »

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

"I don't think we'll have the ability to handle this kind of tech responsibly."

I do not think so either, but so far we survived 75+years with nukes around.

But you can argue, it was mainly by chance. Technological progress is awesome, but our societies cannot keep up yet. They will have to do heavy transition anyway, or perish. Or rather, we are in the process of transition. 20 years ago most people did not really know, what the internet is, now most are always online. Data mining, personalised algorithms for ad exposing, ..

So deepfakes are a concern, but not my biggest. Rather the contrary, when people see how easy it is to fake things, they might start developing a healthy sceptism to illuminating youtube videos.

Post reply on HN