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Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

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Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#201

Post by bwanab »

astuyvenberg wrote: post #54

After spending a decade living and biking around Minneapolis, I recently moved to Boston. The comparison of bicycle infrastructure (and number of people cycling) is stark. Given how bad the vehicle traffic is in Boston, I expected lots of bike commuters. But there's no cohesive bicycle infrastructure here. Protected lanes barely exist, and even when they do, they suddenly end - leaving you on the side of a busy road.…

It’s really problematic. Next door Cambridge is devolving into civil war over bike lanes on Mass Ave. The trouble is that to put in the bike lanes something else has to give. What’s giving is parking spaces which the merchants consider essential to their livelihood. Every time this comes up on Nextdoor it becomes a shouting match. Personally, I stick to riding on the Minuteman. My calculation of the risk reward ratio isn’t good enough to justify riding on the streets.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#202

Post by rland »

snerbles wrote: post #194
closeparen wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost no one is actually surrounded by a natural environment. The suburbia that pervades in America is surrounded by deeply un -natural roadway, parking, gas stations, strip malls, and big box stores. For most people, any time you're outside your home you're in a thoroughly human-crafted world. The question is to what ends that craft is directed. Too many places are optimized for the convenient operation of cars abo…

It's interesting that your first assumption is suburbia and not an actually rural setting.

It's a valid assumption to make. Most people live in suburbia, relatively few are truly rural. A little less than one in five, according to [1]

[1] https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2017/08/rural-america...

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#203

Post by jvanderbot »

bombcar wrote: post #192
jvanderbot wrote: post #108

Concur. I lived in minneapolis for a long time, and biked almost 100% (except winter). I have never felt more un-safe than when I tried to live this lifestyle in LA. In Minneapolis, you could ride along bike-specific greenways and literally stop at bike-only pubs, coffee shops, etc. It was quite accommodating. I'm sure much of that has changed with recent events, but I'm moving back and am cautiously optimistic.

Minneapolis has the advantage of some relatively major rivers, which provide convenient areas to run bike paths along. It works decently well.

I want to call out their conversion of old railways to "greenways" though. Rail lines are straight, off the main roads, have their own bridges, and usually run into the old warehouse areas that are actually the new build-up areas with all the cool bars, student housing, etc. Really smart use of existing infra.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#204

Post by noahtallen »

bombcar wrote: post #174
AlecSchueler wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why would their choices be so different to their counterparts in Europe? Especially Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, France, UK etc? Their counterparts in China? If the infrastructure is built for a certain vehicle then it's not really a choice is it?

Europe has much older cities than the US, and larger amounts of land were already taken up, which has limited the amount of "freeway"-style development. Arguably if it had NOT been for the interstate highway push in the US we'd have an America that would look more European.

I definitely agree with the latter paragraph. But it’s important to note that places like Amsterdam did invest heavily into car infrastructure as well. It’s not completely true that car dependency was staved off by existing road sizes.

Like you allude to, the US was bulldozed for the automobile. We didn’t develop around it. Amsterdam was following a similar path until mass protests in the 70s about people being slaughtered by cars. (https://inkspire.org/post/amsterdam-was-a-car-loving-city-in...)

And over the past several decades, they have made vast changes and redevelopments that we should have been following as well.

And now Amsterdam isn’t just amazing for cyclists and pedestrians… it’s also great for driving. ( https://youtu.be/d8RRE2rDw4k)

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#205

Post by em-bee »

bombcar wrote: post #186
john61 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also much more intersiting for the biker. On many occasions I met people or interesting art / shops etc. while biking, I would have missing those travling by car or bus. You are much more connected to your environment. You do not need an artificial entertainment system, the world itself is your entertainment, as it should be.

Slow travel is like going to a bookstore to get the latest O'Reilly book. If you walk or ride your bike to your destination, you're traveling slow enough to notice what you're passing, and you may notice something you've never seen before, or stop in at a store you've always passed on by, just like walking to the tech section in the bookstore would take you past all the other rows of books, which have a chance of cat…

a documentary i saw recently about biking in germany reported exactly this observation about i think copenhagen, where it was noticed that bike riders shop more impulsively because when they see something, they can just stop and get it, whereas car drivers have to find a place to park, and then walk to the shop, which means they will mostly focus on their original destination, and won't allow themselves to be sidetracked. the faster speed and need to focus on traffic also makes it less likely to even pay attention to the shops they are passing.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#206

Post by ericmay »

rayiner wrote: post #190
ericmay wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the Netherlands building 4 to 8 lane highways, tearing down buildings in major cities and building overpasses, and expanding streets so that they can easily fit and park Ford F-150 size trucks? Are there multi-acre shopping malls, Wal-Marts, and associated parking lots? > If the infrastructure is built for a certain vehicle then it's not really a choice is it? Right... that's why I don't agree that anybody is choo…

I'm not familiar with the Netherlands, but "multi-acre shopping malls" and "associated parking lots" definitely exist in Germany. This is just outside Munich: https://www.google.com/maps/@48.3030026,11.633975,3a,75y,1.2... This is just minutes from downtown Ulm: https://www.google.com/maps/@48.4025064,9.9727005,3a,75y,87....

Yea and Europe exists in China too

https://whenonearth.net/11-fake-european-towns-landmarks-mad...

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#207

Post by stevenjgarner »

For those interested in outlying examples in the extreme, the 8-day Annual Great Bicycle Ride Across Iowa known as RAGBRAI takes more than 15,000 riders [1] on a different route across Iowa every year with different participating overnight communities selected each year. It is the "largest bike-touring event in the world" [2]

"The University of Northern Iowa Sustainable Tourism and Environment Program conducted a (2008) study of RAGBRAI's economic impact on the state, and found the event generated nearly $25 million in direct spending. For overnight stops like Coralville and the points in between, that could mean more than $3 million a day in tourism spending." [3]

[1] https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/life/living-well/rag...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAGBRAI

[3] https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/local/2015/07/09/ra...

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#208

Post by reidjs »

WkndTriathlete wrote: post #169
reidjs wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are in good condition and wearing light clothes, sunscreen, and drinking plenty of water, hot weather is not a problem for bicyclists. Admittedly it takes a bit of work to get there, though, and most people are not willing to put in the work.

Riding when the temperature is 42C is "uncomfortable", rather than "not a problem", if you're seriously road riding. I suppose it's only "not a problem" if you're slowly tooling around on a cruiser...

Part of being in good condition is knowing your limits. If it’s that hot out, you will want to leave a bit earlier and ride slower so you don’t overheat.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#209

Post by em-bee »

user_7832 wrote: post #183
Paianni wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Figure 6 from the study linked below, the trend in cycling levels in the Netherlands was essentially flat from the mid-80s to the mid-2000s. I recall (but cannot find) a source with statistics that suggest a minor increase since then, but much of the current infrastructure was in place 15 years ago. http://web.archive.org/web/20150211090849/http://www.policy....

Speaking as someone living in the NLs, I don't see any reason for cycle use/ownership to change much. Folks who can cycle likely already do, and those who can't/don't want to are unlikely to start (with the exception of e bikes making it easier).

because the netherlands already have a very good biking infrastructure for decades. i have been biking there in the 80s and 90s. neighboring germany was no comparison. obviously if you already have good infrastructure, further improvements won't be very noticeable or motivate many more people to bike.

but in cities that previously didn't have good infrastructure, the massive improvements really did attract new riders that would not have considered riding a bike before.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#210

Post by em-bee »

bombcar wrote: post #52

Note that the improvement was on protected bike lanes, which is the key. A dedicated bike path (even if shared with pedestrians) is the kind of thing that gets people who don't ride to try riding. Painting some lines on the road can help once people are on the bike - we need more dedicated bike lanes and they should be designed to "shortcut" in ways that roads do not. Even things like "mostly" closing an alley to thr…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5wZjhb-hZs

this german documentary makes exactly the same observation and argument. street markings may help existing riders, but most of those will ride anyways, even without dedicated paths.

whereas protected bike lanes are what really attracts new riders

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