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Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

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Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#121

Post by ocb »

astuyvenberg wrote: post #54

After spending a decade living and biking around Minneapolis, I recently moved to Boston. The comparison of bicycle infrastructure (and number of people cycling) is stark. Given how bad the vehicle traffic is in Boston, I expected lots of bike commuters. But there's no cohesive bicycle infrastructure here. Protected lanes barely exist, and even when they do, they suddenly end - leaving you on the side of a busy road.…

It's a case of the relatively spread out development pattern and associated wide rights of way being advantageous. Minneapolis can tack on fairly substantial bike infrastructure without totally screwing over cars, which would be just as politically difficult in Minneapolis as any other American city.

The Grand Rounds help a lot too. It's a great basis to have inherited from the past.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#122

Post by KennyBlanken »

vel0city wrote: post #89
alistairSH wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if weather permits Reminds me of an old cycling adage (possibly predates modern cycling, not sure): There's no such thing as poor weather, only poor clothing choices. I hate to come across as a Nordic fetishist, but there are several cold northern cities known for their year-round cycling. Bike paths are plowed and/or heated. And people just layer up. Oulu, Finland comes to mind - paths are designed to drain well so…

> There's no such thing as poor weather, only poor clothing choices. Where I live the heat index is supposed to be 108F with almost no cloud coverage. Riding a bike a few miles in the middle of the day is definitely risking heat stroke. It is without a doubt poor weather for riding.

And yet bicycles are very popular in countries where it is incredibly hot and humid.

Bicycling is more efficient than walking; you're generating less heat to move at the same speed, or you can move faster for the same heat generation, generating more cooling breeze.

I've ridden in over 100 degree weather during a heat wave. I dressed in the lightest clothing I owned, and arrived barely sweating.

My coworkers demanded to know how I'd arrived not drenched in sweat; after all, just walking from the bus stop many of them had gotten soaked in sweat.

Simple: I planned an extra ten minutes for my commute, and barely pressed the pedals...

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#123

Post by KennyBlanken »

andrewsuzuki wrote: post #117
loeg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor weather is also hard on the drivetrain. It’s not just a matter of rider discomfort — riding in the wet is also just more expensive and more time-consuming, mile for mile. (I ride a few thousand miles per year, but mostly not in the rain and never in the snow.)

Belt drivetrains (e.g. Gates Carbon Drive) + internally-geared hubs (e.g. Shimano Alfine) have basically solved that issue. They cost a bit more than chain-derailleur drivetrains but not significantly more.

There's also an efficiency loss, but for me the near elimination of maintenance costs and labor was worth it.

In over ten years of riding in all conditions including heavy snow with sand and salt, I have never done any maintenance on my belt drive system. I'm on my second belt.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#124

Post by loeg »

jupp0r wrote: post #59
loeg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor weather is also hard on the drivetrain. It’s not just a matter of rider discomfort — riding in the wet is also just more expensive and more time-consuming, mile for mile. (I ride a few thousand miles per year, but mostly not in the rain and never in the snow.)

What do you do instead of riding when it’s wet or it snows? I bet it’s also harder on their drivetrains and biking is still cheaper. Spiked tires work really well in winter by the way.

I’m not driving a vehicle the other days.

(I don’t ride in snow because we don’t get snow where I live, not for lack of tires.)

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#125

Post by ericmay »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #116
ericmay wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which is that you don’t like the life choices most other Americans are making I think this is the fundamental problem. I don't have a bone to pick with oil and gas companies. It's a resource, we need to address climate change, w/e, but fossil fuels are useful and should be used within reason. But I do have a bone to pick with this idea that Americans are making a choice because I think they're not making a choice w…

And why would their choices be so different to their counterparts in Europe? Especially Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, France, UK etc? Their counterparts in China? If the infrastructure is built for a certain vehicle then it's not really a choice is it?

Is the Netherlands building 4 to 8 lane highways, tearing down buildings in major cities and building overpasses, and expanding streets so that they can easily fit and park Ford F-150 size trucks? Are there multi-acre shopping malls, Wal-Marts, and associated parking lots?

> If the infrastructure is built for a certain vehicle then it's not really a choice is it?

Right... that's why I don't agree that anybody is choosing here.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#126

Post by sandworm101 »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #91
dionidium wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The belief that the opposite is true is so entrenched that business owners in Manhattan vehemently opposed banning cars on 14th St for fear that it would devastate their businesses. Of course, nothing of the sort happened. The cars were banned and nothing happened except that the street got a lot quieter and safer.

Based on feedback from local businesses in early 2020 (pre-Covid), ~40% of food and beverage businesses reported that business had become either "worse" or "much worse" since the changes. Reports from "dry retail" businesses are slightly better and service businesses slightly worse. This is compared with https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5bc63eb90b77bd20c50c5... (page 21) Traffic also increased substantially on…

That depends on one's perspective. Certainly the businesses seem to have suffered, but who in NYC really cares about street-level businesses? NYC is all about high-end residential real estate. Emptying that street of makes all those apartments slightly more desirable, slightly more expensive. That in turn has a net benefit to the city's bottom line. And I would not be surprised if there were more people employed in constructing new high-end apartment buildings that there are working street-level retail.

There is an old saying that nobody who "works" in NYC can afford to live in NYC. You need passive family/investment income to support living there. The new saying might be that nobody who lives in new your can afford to live there. It is a place for people rich enough to maintain residences in multiple cities, a place for luxury crashpads servicing weekend benders. Nobody rich enough to owns a NYC apartment actually spends much time in NYC.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#127

Post by jader201 »

ericmay wrote: post #11
aBioGuy wrote: post #6

If you make it pleasant to ride a bike - people will do it. Where I live, there is an off-street bike path that was completed about 10 years ago. Since then many new businesses have opened along the path. The economic impact of pulling people OUT OF A CAR and INTO THEIR environment is perhaps under-appreciated.

> The economic impact of pulling people OUT OF A CAR and INTO THEIR environment is perhaps under-appreciated. All you have to do is stop and take a look at pictures where you see lots of people riding bikes or walking near businesses and then contrast that with a 4-lane road to get an idea of how much more economic activity is generated locally for a business. If you don't have an automobile industry (and even if you…

> It's fucking crazy that we do this. I don't know how much more emphasis I can put on it.

I usually jump on a soapbox whenever I see so much support for getting rid of cars on HN, so here goes:

Not everyone lives in a city.

I’m 100% in agreement for all of these arguments, with the precondition that you live in the city.

But many prefer and enjoy distance from neighbors, commerce/industry, and enjoy being surrounded by a more natural environment.

And many of these comments seem to completely ignore folks that prefer a quieter lifestyle over being surrounded by everything.

This is especially true as we move more towards remote work — if people are able to work out of their home, a percentage of those will want their home -- where they spend a large majority of their life -- to have some privacy and pleasant surroundings. Which means distance. Which means cars.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#128

Post by kfarr »

Lionga wrote: post #51
nashashmi wrote: post #5

Fair question: Are dedicated bike lanes near pedestrian friendly paths a safe transportation environment? I feel that bikes and electric scooters are more dangerous than cars.

A 100KG vehicle going maybe 15 to 25KM/h being more dangerous than a 1000 KG 40 to 70 KM/h going vehicle? Seems practically impossible to me

Agree with your analysis, however I'm not sure facts are helpful for this person when the starting point is feelings. > I feel that bikes and electric scooters are more dangerous than cars.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#129

Post by alistairSH »

fipar wrote: post #97
alistairSH wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if weather permits Reminds me of an old cycling adage (possibly predates modern cycling, not sure): There's no such thing as poor weather, only poor clothing choices. I hate to come across as a Nordic fetishist, but there are several cold northern cities known for their year-round cycling. Bike paths are plowed and/or heated. And people just layer up. Oulu, Finland comes to mind - paths are designed to drain well so…

Do they also get lots of rain, or only snow? I find that biking (and more broadly, being outdoors) sucks during rainy winter days, but I live in a place with no snow and only humid, rainy winters. Also, having something waterproof to cover your head has a negative impact on your ability to see properly (even as a pedestrian). I've been a few times to places where it snows in the winter (nothing extreme, NYC in Februa…

Oulu is near the arctic circle, so winter rain is probably rare (though I've never been there, just read about it).

And yeah, cold rain is the worst. We get far more of that than snow where I am.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#130

Post by greedo »

swader999 wrote: post #79
jupp0r wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do instead of riding when it’s wet or it snows? I bet it’s also harder on their drivetrains and biking is still cheaper. Spiked tires work really well in winter by the way.

There's almost no weather you can't bike in, just requires decent clothing and studs like parent mentions. In Calgary Alberta one year I commuted 50 km across the city each way with ebike for an entire year. With decent snow clearing, studded tires there was probably only ten days I didn't want to or couldn't take my bike.

Yesterday it was 94F with humidity around 70%. If I tried to ride to the closest supermarket, that's 10min each way. Great way to get heat stroke.
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