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Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

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Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#191

Post by sirmarksalot »

ericmay wrote: post #125
AlecSchueler wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why would their choices be so different to their counterparts in Europe? Especially Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, France, UK etc? Their counterparts in China? If the infrastructure is built for a certain vehicle then it's not really a choice is it?

Is the Netherlands building 4 to 8 lane highways, tearing down buildings in major cities and building overpasses, and expanding streets so that they can easily fit and park Ford F-150 size trucks? Are there multi-acre shopping malls, Wal-Marts, and associated parking lots? > If the infrastructure is built for a certain vehicle then it's not really a choice is it? Right... that's why I don't agree that anybody is choo…

THEN WHY ARE WE YELLING?!!

I DON'T KNOW!

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#192

Post by bombcar »

jvanderbot wrote: post #108

Concur. I lived in minneapolis for a long time, and biked almost 100% (except winter). I have never felt more un-safe than when I tried to live this lifestyle in LA. In Minneapolis, you could ride along bike-specific greenways and literally stop at bike-only pubs, coffee shops, etc. It was quite accommodating. I'm sure much of that has changed with recent events, but I'm moving back and am cautiously optimistic.

Minneapolis has the advantage of some relatively major rivers, which provide convenient areas to run bike paths along. It works decently well.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#193

Post by uoaei »

rayiner wrote: post #63
nick_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't somebody please think of the oil and car companies!

Oil and car companies just sell a product that people want to buy. Toyota didn’t hold a gun to my head to get me to buy an SUV that gets 15 miles a gallon. Attacking them is an out to avoid confronting the real issue, which is that you don’t like the life choices most other Americans are making.

This ignores an entire history of market manipulation and public propaganda and influence campaigns exercised by the auto industry.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#194

Post by snerbles »

closeparen wrote: post #152
jader201 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's fucking crazy that we do this. I don't know how much more emphasis I can put on it. I usually jump on a soapbox whenever I see so much support for getting rid of cars on HN, so here goes: Not everyone lives in a city. I’m 100% in agreement for all of these arguments, with the precondition that you live in the city . But many prefer and enjoy distance from neighbors, commerce/industry, and enjoy being surrounde…

Almost no one is actually surrounded by a natural environment. The suburbia that pervades in America is surrounded by deeply un -natural roadway, parking, gas stations, strip malls, and big box stores. For most people, any time you're outside your home you're in a thoroughly human-crafted world. The question is to what ends that craft is directed. Too many places are optimized for the convenient operation of cars abo…

It's interesting that your first assumption is suburbia and not an actually rural setting.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#195

Post by uoaei »

thegrim33 wrote: post #166
ericmay wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The economic impact of pulling people OUT OF A CAR and INTO THEIR environment is perhaps under-appreciated. All you have to do is stop and take a look at pictures where you see lots of people riding bikes or walking near businesses and then contrast that with a 4-lane road to get an idea of how much more economic activity is generated locally for a business. If you don't have an automobile industry (and even if you…

"We're literally making ourselves poor trying to do this." I guess you'd need to explain why we've had this infrastructure for the entire history of our country, and it didn't "make us poor" before. You're implying it so obviously doesn't work, yet it's been the default setup for every city in the country for a long time now. It very obviously has worked in the past.

It has been making us poor the whole time, but city budgets are good at hiding the burden we carry. Every municipality you stepped foot in today is probably one that carries significant debt because the rate of return on development of the current style (sprawl-oriented) is terrible. Compare this to higher-density options where people are pedestrians who are free to walk into shops along a boulevard, with no need for parking spaces and drive-thrus, which are shown to be more prosperous for cities and foster more productive and sustainable sources of tax revenue in downtowns and public centers more generally.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#196

Post by harryh »

rayiner wrote: post #63
nick_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't somebody please think of the oil and car companies!

Oil and car companies just sell a product that people want to buy. Toyota didn’t hold a gun to my head to get me to buy an SUV that gets 15 miles a gallon. Attacking them is an out to avoid confronting the real issue, which is that you don’t like the life choices most other Americans are making.

From 2004-17 I lived in NYC and didn't own a car and very rarely rented one. From 2017-20 I lived in Chapel Hill, NC and (along with my wife) owned two cars. From 2021-now I've been back in NYC. We sold the cars and have no plans to ever buy new ones.

I've been roughly the same person the whole time. My change in buying behavior wasn't so much personal preference as much as it was the lifestyle that was enforced by the policy choices of the location I was living in.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#197

Post by [deleted] »

closeparen wrote: post #152
jader201 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's fucking crazy that we do this. I don't know how much more emphasis I can put on it. I usually jump on a soapbox whenever I see so much support for getting rid of cars on HN, so here goes: Not everyone lives in a city. I’m 100% in agreement for all of these arguments, with the precondition that you live in the city . But many prefer and enjoy distance from neighbors, commerce/industry, and enjoy being surrounde…

Almost no one is actually surrounded by a natural environment. The suburbia that pervades in America is surrounded by deeply un -natural roadway, parking, gas stations, strip malls, and big box stores. For most people, any time you're outside your home you're in a thoroughly human-crafted world. The question is to what ends that craft is directed. Too many places are optimized for the convenient operation of cars abo…

[deleted]

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#198

Post by gen220 »

astuyvenberg wrote: post #138
gen220 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a Boston resident, but have some friends up there who say that there are great bike paths for urban ingress/egress, but not particularly good for intra-urban travel. Does that match your experience?

I've put on about 200 miles since moving to Boston, and that observation does not align with my experience at all. So far I've ridden one very good path connecting a few suburbs to Boston (Minuteman Bike Trail, a rails to trails path). There are other paths, but they're combined with running/walking trails and generally not conducive to bicycle travel. The bike lanes of nearby Somerville and Cambridge are okay, but s…

Gotcha, that's disappointing.

I think my friends were riding along the Charles River, for what it's worth. They're more occasional bike commuters (once or twice per week) than a real serious bunch, and I don't know their start/end points.

Rail-to-trail appears to be how most longish (10 mile +) bike paths come into existence in the northeast, from my observations. There's a lot less "free space" to work with than other parts of the country, since the land is so developed / dominated by automobiles.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#199

Post by btreesOfSpring »

thegrim33 wrote: post #166
ericmay wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The economic impact of pulling people OUT OF A CAR and INTO THEIR environment is perhaps under-appreciated. All you have to do is stop and take a look at pictures where you see lots of people riding bikes or walking near businesses and then contrast that with a 4-lane road to get an idea of how much more economic activity is generated locally for a business. If you don't have an automobile industry (and even if you…

"We're literally making ourselves poor trying to do this." I guess you'd need to explain why we've had this infrastructure for the entire history of our country, and it didn't "make us poor" before. You're implying it so obviously doesn't work, yet it's been the default setup for every city in the country for a long time now. It very obviously has worked in the past.

The Strong Town series by Not Just Bikes on YouTube is often linked on HN but the third video[0] in the series covers your question. Take a look if you are curious about where the "making ourselves poor" point of view is hatched.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMeKl-Sv0

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#200

Post by rland »

ericmay wrote: post #11
aBioGuy wrote: post #6

If you make it pleasant to ride a bike - people will do it. Where I live, there is an off-street bike path that was completed about 10 years ago. Since then many new businesses have opened along the path. The economic impact of pulling people OUT OF A CAR and INTO THEIR environment is perhaps under-appreciated.

> The economic impact of pulling people OUT OF A CAR and INTO THEIR environment is perhaps under-appreciated. All you have to do is stop and take a look at pictures where you see lots of people riding bikes or walking near businesses and then contrast that with a 4-lane road to get an idea of how much more economic activity is generated locally for a business. If you don't have an automobile industry (and even if you…

This is how I think of this.

Think of the median income of a country that you might imagine is a "nice" place to live. I found a source that lists them all (in fictitious "international dollars", not USD). So here's a few:

* USA: $19,300

----

* France: $16,300

* Japan: $14,200

* Israel: $10,800

* UK: $14,800

* Spain: $11,800

Wow, we are so much richer than those guys. Our quality of life must be higher, right? This extra 30% money for everyone(!) must translate to a higher standard of living. Maybe we work more than people in those countries, but it translates to: less air pollution, quieter streets, less time spent commuting, more pleasant built environments, more beautiful cities, better health, more civil services, better parks and public facilities ...

Nope. All that money just goes to cars. We make an extra 30% -- and then turn around and burn it, literally, in cars, making everyone poorer, more atomized, more depressed, more unhealthy. For an unlucky hundreds of thousands of us per year, we are physically hurt; for 35,000 of us, we are killed!

For what?

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