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I fucking hate Jira

ifuckinghatejira.com

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Re: I fucking hate Jira

#491

Post by NonNefarious »

momothereal wrote: post #427
NonNefarious wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also ex-Apple here. Radar does suffer (to a lesser extent than Jira) from a profound defect, though: Searches are "exact match" for whatever text you put in the title. To find a bug YOU filed, you have to remember the exact words and sequence you used in the title. Did I say "resize window" or "resize a window?" I filed a bug against Radar for this behavior, and developers from other teams added comments expressing s…

That seems weird... is it too hard to feed everything into an Elasticsearch index? Even with default settings and some decent hardware you'd get good stemming and relevance ranking pretty easily.

No idea. You could type SQL into searches, but then you had to go somewhere (no idea where) and look up the tables or entities to query. I mean... really?

Re: I fucking hate Jira

#492

Post by BlargMcLarg »

urthor wrote: post #471
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll ask you the reverse. What proof is there we absolutely need all this to function? If people are so sure of this, surely they can substantiate it with more than just rationality. If the similarities are fine, just pull that information from the other disciplines you insist know better than the "special snowflakes". >Why does engineer or constructor worker understand that you need planning to align thousands of pe…

If you've worked in large construction, you'll realize just how many project managers large projects need to function. There are an incredible amount of project managers running from place to place on a construction project keeping teams in line. Construction work, design blueprints, government regulator, there are SO many teams and SO many project managers running between them. JIRA is absolutely a net positive in t…

You haven't addressed the part where the ICs have to be part of the system so thoroughly. You've only addressed that project managers need to communicate with one another and with their teams, and you've only done so by using anecdotal evidence, before drawing a conclusion that JIRA is a net positive.

Again, give some actual proof. It's about time we stop clashing rationalities and face the music. If it's this easy to come to a "rational conclusion", it shouldn't be much harder to pull evidence.

Re: I fucking hate Jira

#493

Post by enra »

epalm wrote: post #128
jrockway wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linear is much nicer. Very quick issue entry and very nice looking sprint summary/status and roadmap tabs. It's everything I want. Most importantly, it's fast. I work with issues a lot, so a slow tool like jira just isn't acceptable. Jira exists to check every checkbox so you feel serious remorse if you pick anything else, but in terms of day-to-day productivity, it doesn't do too well. "Nice to look at" and "Fast" a…

I looked at Linear and it's very software-specific. The features page says it's "the new standard for modern software development". I do use Jira for software, but also for generic state tracking of non-software processes. E.g. some projects have no use for sprints, or code integration, or user stories.

It's aimed for software teams, but there are also non-software teams using it.

Sprints (cycles) are turned off by default, similarly many other features can be enabled or left off if you don't need them.

Code integration is also not really visible unless you integrate and use it.

Re: I fucking hate Jira

#494

Post by hiperlink »

What I had figured in this past ~10 years since working with Jira: it is not this software that made my life hard but the project managers, administrators etc. who are misusing it.

E.g creating lots of fields with overlapping meaning. Creating very basic/lame status-flows but not enforcing it. Or creating very hard to follow status flows. Or misreading the data from tickets status history. Or never trying to learn how to use it but find the guy at (my) table, to create the queries, dashboards etc. (and then misuse them). Or the devs who were complaining about missing info but creating one-liner comments as well (if at all). Or the devs who are not searching for duplicates, similar issues and/or link them so it can be tracked.

It is far from perfect, and JQL is so far from being intuitive, but I can live with it - until there is a better alternative that is capable AND I have to use that.

Re: I fucking hate Jira

#495

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #36
sefrost wrote: post #4

I wish the comments were more specific about which features they don’t like. For me a particularly frustrating aspect is the way the UI moves around a lot. I’m quite anxious to click anything until all the loading spinners have stopped in case I click the wrong thing. Then I could be taken to a page or feature I’ve never seen before. Also it’s really annoying when I try to copy something from a ticket description but…

The hate is not for JIRA the tool, but JIRA the way of managing things.

This is true. I too would rejoice to see Jira die in a fire; but the fact is that if that happened, another tool would be used instead, and the same dysfunctional management processes would just re-emerge.

Re: I fucking hate Jira

#497

Post by xpe »

pjmlp wrote: post #483
xpe wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yet it still is better than the alternatives. Not in my experience. I'd much rather use GitHub issues or a range of similar products. Finding and searching works well. Performance is good. Organization is feasible. Labels work fine for customization. > Jira is like democracy, it isn't perfect and is full of flaws, ... Using a pithy cross-disciplinary metaphor to try to bolster support for an argument doesn't do muc…

I mentioned on the previous comment, but it was labeled as Jira cult. Developing software for 30+ years. Before Jira came to be, in-house stuff based in Perl CGIs, Lotus, DOORS. ClearQuest, Bugzilla, among others. After Jira came to be, Trello, GitHub, Azure DevOps, TFS. None of them provides the same seamless integration between documentation, code changes, change requests, project management, build pipeline, in-hou…

> Developing software for 30+ years.

Cool. Similar over here, though admittedly not with source control or bug trackers for that long. :)

> None of them provides the same seamless integration between documentation, code changes, change requests, project management, build pipeline, in-house deployment and quite relevant in enterprise context, customization.

I think I see where you are coming from. But Jira's cost (efficiency, complexity, confusion about how to use them, etc) for all these integrations is tremendous. It is easily to make a tremendously better user experience over Jira, even with a pile of integrations.

And yes, I understand that building software for enterprises can be demoralizingly painful and frustrating. To paraphrase another quote, I like everything about enterprise software except the enterprise part. I find the general claimed philosophy of "we are risk averse" often is insincere, a rationalization for inefficiency, and a confusion about what risk means over different time scales. Sure, constant churn is risky. But falling into a pattern of not trying new things inevitably leads to stagnation. Better to have some failures than never to try.

Re: I fucking hate Jira

#498

Post by xpe »

pjmlp wrote: post #483
xpe wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yet it still is better than the alternatives. Not in my experience. I'd much rather use GitHub issues or a range of similar products. Finding and searching works well. Performance is good. Organization is feasible. Labels work fine for customization. > Jira is like democracy, it isn't perfect and is full of flaws, ... Using a pithy cross-disciplinary metaphor to try to bolster support for an argument doesn't do muc…

I mentioned on the previous comment, but it was labeled as Jira cult. Developing software for 30+ years. Before Jira came to be, in-house stuff based in Perl CGIs, Lotus, DOORS. ClearQuest, Bugzilla, among others. After Jira came to be, Trello, GitHub, Azure DevOps, TFS. None of them provides the same seamless integration between documentation, code changes, change requests, project management, build pipeline, in-hou…

> None of them provides the same seamless integration between documentation, code changes, change requests, project management, build pipeline, in-house deployment and quite relevant in enterprise context, customization.

Indeed. Often less is more. Your comment may inadvertently be making my point for me. :)

For example, a hyperlink (implied is fine, added in a view is fine) between a commit message and a ticket in my view, is possibly the perfect level of integration.

Integration does not have to (nor should it) mean poor performance or usability.

Re: I fucking hate Jira

#499

Post by CRConrad »

oneplane wrote: post #300
colechristensen wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that there are tools that enable and encourage bad behavior. The kinds of organizational toxicity simply aren’t possible with some tools, sure an ambitious executive could try but the attempt would fail very quickly. Such attempts to do the broken overburdened nonsense that frequently comes with Jira don’t fail, they are enabled and encouraged. What is technically possible and what is likely are two very…

JIRA really doesn't encourage anything in any direction except writing down what you are up to in a reasonably friendly way. Anything beyond that is up to the implementors, and there is nothing in the world that can prevent bad top-down behaviour within a company.

> Anything beyond that is up to the implementors

"Implementors". Anything that needs to be "implemented" is either a) not finished, b) too big and complex, or c) both.

Dunno for sure how much less code Jira has compared to, say, MS Excel or Adobe Acrobat, but I could imagine it might be up to an order of magnitude. But you don't have to "implement" those; you just install them.

Re: I fucking hate Jira

#500

Post by CRConrad »

msla wrote: post #295
colechristensen wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that there are tools that enable and encourage bad behavior. The kinds of organizational toxicity simply aren’t possible with some tools, sure an ambitious executive could try but the attempt would fail very quickly. Such attempts to do the broken overburdened nonsense that frequently comes with Jira don’t fail, they are enabled and encouraged. What is technically possible and what is likely are two very…

"The tool can't do it" is an excuse. Excuses aren't tolerated. Now, make it happen. Tools can't prevent bad management because bad managers don't care about tools. They care about getting what they want, and if the tool doesn't enable it, that's their underlings' problem, not theirs. Jira doesn't stand in their way because nothing stands in their way.

That's precisely why Jira sucks: Because it doesn't stand in their way. And why you want simpler software, which by not being able to bend to their misguided will, does stand in their way.
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