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We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

mullvad.net

171–180 of 453 posts

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#171
post #54
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In order to provide refunds and the ability to recover lost accounts we need to store some record of a payment, at least for a short time. As soon as we do not need the data to enable refunding a payment we scrub the record of anything that can link the payment or the account to any personally identifiable information kept by the payment processor (this could be your bank, for example). So they hold your info and l…

Selecting Pretzel24 as payment method redirects to https://go.przelewy24.pl/ where in turn you choose between different banks. I guess it is a Polish service for direct bank payments?

Wait, does it actually say "Pretzel" somewere, or did you both misspell it?

"przelewy" means "wire transfers" in Polish: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/przelew Nothing to do with pretzels. :)

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these benefits not eroding? Pressure on subscription models comes from both the public getting herd immunity against the underlying dark pattern and competitors chasing a diminishing supply of people to trick as world + dog has adopted the tactic. In this particular case, with a privacy tailwind, it will be unsurprising if it ends up increasing their sales.

I don't think so. Us privacy and control freaks abhor subscriptions, the mainstream just shrugs and pays what they're told to pay. I can even see them adopting rental models for a lot of stuff we purchase outright now (the "you will own nothing and you will be happy" great reset promoted by the world economic forum). I think this is pretty exploitative but I'm pretty sure I am in a minority. Obviously big business lo…

> mainstream just shrugs and pays what they're told to pay.

But mullvad isn't targeting mainstream!

It's mainstream compatible, as-in not too hard to use, but that's it.

Also mainstream only cares about VPNs because they believe it does magically things, like somehow better protecting all your privacy even if you are logged into Facebook or somehow making account hijacking or banking scams less likely :/

That's why they will go anyway with VPN providers which do a lot of ad advertisement to make them subconscious feel like it's doing all this magical things (even if they never explicitly claim it). Like NordVPN (you probably know what I mean if you use e.g. twitch in the EU ;=) ).

So no point in competing for this users without doing things like a ad powered free plan, free testing month, and tons of dark-ish patterns.

Instead mullvad has I think a good idea about what works with their customers.

I think it still will cost them money (who hasn't forgotten to cancel and abo) but also might save them money (not having to handle anything in support related to subscriptions going wrong). And maybe with things like people pre-paying for a year, but stop using it after a few month it will also not cost them anything. Really hard to say. I mean it was also guaranteed to end up on HN, so free advertisement to exactly the right audience. That's worth some money, too.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#173
post #106
post #27

Wow. Hadn't heard of Mullvad before reading this, figured I'd give it a try. That is hands down the BEST onboarding experience for an app (let alone a VPN) I've had in I don't know how long. Took me maybe 2 minutes to go from no account to a working VPN connection. I love that everything is anonymous (down to the account credentials just being a randomly generated token).

I also like that they let you download the raw wireguard config files so that you can connect without having to use their client. You can just plop them onto your filesystem and use wg-quick to get going. Since I'm also a ProtonMail user and I considered switching to them for VPN as well but their python client doesn't seem to work correctly on my Arch Linux install and it doesn't give me anything useful to debug it…

Been using protonmail on arch for years, you have to setup the configs a tad more manually and do some editing (I forget now); definitely doable and protonmail lets you download the configs (which work out of the box depending what you use).

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#174
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd have to have some form of connection, but it might be possible to design it in such a way that it could be plausibly denied. Holomorphic? All the ways I come up with (giving out keys) have the problem of how do you renew the key, and how do you cancel it, without knowing which is which.

Couldn't you give them short-lasting keys, that they can use to sign session keys? e.g. 1. Connect to Mullvad over Tor, authenticate with real-world user ID 2. Use this to sign a blinded token 3. Use this to connect to Mullvad anonymously after some delay The first run would be kind of dodgy, but after that you could get new session keys on a fixed schedule and switch them out at a random interval. If they see that u…

It seems like you're trying to solve a totally different problem that doesn't exist. If you have a subscription, that means Mullvad must store information that ties your account to the subscription payment processor. That is the information they don't want to store anymore, because they want their users to be anonymous. Their system is already setup so that users can't be correlated with VPN activity.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#176
post #6

I've always loved that Mullvad wouldn't let you accidentally compromise your own security. For example, the port-forwarding feature won't work if you have a recurring subscription. This just extends that kind of thinking to the service in general. Been a Mullvad customer for a long time now, and it's always been awesome.

What's the exact reasoning behind that? How does paying via paypall impact the privacy of a forwarded port?

Is this something to do with state-level actors?

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#177
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do the other popular VPNs not have any integrity left?

A lot of them have been gobbled up by Kape or otherwise proven to keep logs/data when they claim they don't https://restoreprivacy.com/kape-technologies-owns-expressvpn...

Oh man I thought Private Internet Access was still one of the independent VPNs. I feel duped. :/

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. Us privacy and control freaks abhor subscriptions, the mainstream just shrugs and pays what they're told to pay. I can even see them adopting rental models for a lot of stuff we purchase outright now (the "you will own nothing and you will be happy" great reset promoted by the world economic forum). I think this is pretty exploitative but I'm pretty sure I am in a minority. Obviously big business lo…

> mainstream just shrugs and pays what they're told to pay. But mullvad isn't targeting mainstream! It's mainstream compatible, as-in not too hard to use, but that's it. Also mainstream only cares about VPNs because they believe it does magically things, like somehow better protecting all your privacy even if you are logged into Facebook or somehow making account hijacking or banking scams less likely :/ That's why t…

> But mullvad isn't targeting mainstream!

I agree, this is precisely why they're doing this. Putting their customers' privacy over their investors' wallets. This is a big ballsy move IMO. They're buying a lot of goodwill here. And taking a risk.

> Also mainstream only cares about VPNs because they believe it does magically things, like somehow better protecting all your privacy even if you are logged into Facebook or somehow making account hijacking or banking scams less likely :/

Also totally agreed lol. I often get questions from friends about VPNs. Always have to explain that privacy really doesn't work if you willingly give up your data :)

And no I don't use Twitch so not sure what you mean there, sounds like an interesting story.

> So no point in competing for this users without doing things like a ad powered free plan, free testing month, and tons of dark-ish patterns. Instead mullvad has I think a good idea about what works with their customers.

Exactly. They're not doing a tunnelbear.

> I think it still will cost them money (who hasn't forgotten to cancel and abo) but also might save them money (not having to handle anything in support related to subscriptions going wrong). And maybe with things like people pre-paying for a year, but stop using it after a few month it will also not cost them anything. Really hard to say. I mean it was also guaranteed to end up on HN, so free advertisement to exactly the right audience. That's worth some money, too.

I agree it's ballsy, this makes me respect the gesture even more. It's not the 'done thing' in this day and age. But they're still doing it and for the right reason.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#180

Do they take crypto? I’ve funded some virgin addresses from Tornado Cash notes, running from my own local node Thats sufficient and definitely less cumbersome than Monero.

Yes. [0] " Which payment methods do you accept? We accept cash, Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Monero, bank wire, credit card, PayPal, Swish, Giropay, Eps transfer, Bancontact, iDEAL, and Przelewy24. " also Cash "Can I really pay with cash? You bet, and please! Stay anonymous all the way. Just put your cash and payment token (randomly generated on our website) in an envelope and send it to us. We accept the following currenc…

Ohh ok so no Ethereum or EVM assets

With virgin addresses I can get bitcoin and monero (or anything incl cash) anonymously from the tornado cash notes via the bridges, or via exchanges and staying below KYC limits

But Tornado Cash notes decrypt only to EVMs where Tornado Cash is deployed. It would be more convenient for Ether and some ERC20 tokens to also be used directly, instead of bridges or exchanges.

Are you all beholden to a specific payment processor or implementation? People pay the most to use Ethereum for over half a decade now, which is best projection we have for activity and potential interest in merchants that aren't crypto native services.

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