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Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

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Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#331

Post by zdragnar »

dopidopHN wrote: post #253
zdragnar wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget making and mending your own clothes, washing them by hand, beating rugs outdoors by hand, all the little chores that have been replaced by electrical tools or are cheaper to purchase than make yourself. Harvesting and chopping firewood, or managing coal. If you visit an Amish community, they might talk about how people occasionally want to join them, only to realize just how much easier modern life is an…

I’m almost 40, not from the US, and mass market hit us later in ( 1955 rather than just after WW2 ) Still: you will have to go back to my grand parent generation to find folks carrying out the activity you describing. And even then, that was seen at the time as a rural predicament ( bigger cities had «modern confort » already, but not isolated farm and so on. ( agreeing with all you says… just that the timing seems o…

Keeping in mind just how rural parts of the US were helps; many didn't get electricity until the 1930's or indoor plumbing as late as the 1950's. The farmhouse my dad grew up in didn't have indoor plumbing the first few years of his life.

Of course, city folk had electricity and gas much earlier, but even today a full 1/5 of the population is outside of urban areas; it was at least that much back then.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#332

Post by watwut »

colinmhayes wrote: post #299
watwut wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.) The "it is the same people" thing is your guess, something you want to be true. It is not something born of facts. There are people who play games 30 hours a week ... and then there are people who never play them. And this is the most important point here. 2.) Specifically with Netflix, people watch Netflix while doing other things or when when they are already tired. I turn on tv or listen podcasts when cooking…

> people watch Netflix while doing other things or when when they are already tired. I turn on tv or listen podcasts when cooking or cleaning or am doing other boring activities You don't think this counts as leisure time? Cooking while listening to music or a podcast is much more enjoyable than doing it in silence.

If you watch while cooking or cleaning, then your "I don't have a time" is still quite true and non-puzzling. You are doing work that needs to be done, just in slightly more pleasant way.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#333

Post by rakejake »

koheripbal wrote: post #223
rakejake wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the absence of leisure during leisure time rather than loss of leisure time. True, there is more time today for hobbies and other such activities than there was previously, and less responsibilities. But the increase in the pace of life sort of compensates for this. I technically waste a lot of time on the internet that could be better served listening to classical music or reading a novel. Yet, I find…

This has more with a lack of discipline, than a lack of available time or resources.

Sure, you could put it that way. There are always two sides to this: one side says onus is on the individual to regulate what they do/consume, other side blames the addictive properties of the substance.

The internet is no way comparable to a physical addiction like tobacco, in fact I'm not sure if it could even be called an addiction. I'd put it this way: our way of life today has been altered because of the internet. By default, you have a lot of exposure to media today which means our baseline tolerance for media is very high. Toning this down is very achievable but is not trivial and requires some effort and habit-forming.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#334

Post by rakejake »

r3trohack3r wrote: post #250
rakejake wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the absence of leisure during leisure time rather than loss of leisure time. True, there is more time today for hobbies and other such activities than there was previously, and less responsibilities. But the increase in the pace of life sort of compensates for this. I technically waste a lot of time on the internet that could be better served listening to classical music or reading a novel. Yet, I find…

The increase in the pace of modern life does not compensate for this. Many of the problems of the past have been widely solved, and those solutions have brought new problems. Discounting todays solutions based on todays problems misses the historical context this article is addressing. “Modern society doesn’t have leisure time because people can’t help but check Twitter instead of listen to Beethoven, when they have…

I am not claiming that a majority of people in the past enjoyed leisure time. The improvements in tech that lead to more leisure time does not automatically mean people enjoy that time. While there is pressure to get a task done at work, or do chores at home, there is no one pushing you to enjoy yourself. People who don't know how to use this free time, or don't care to use this free time, can instead do more work now.

If enough people fill up leisure time with work or work-like activities (doing the dishes), that increases the overall pace of life. You do live in a society after all. Other people's actions will affect you.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#335

Post by skybrian »

azemetre wrote: post #237
koheripbal wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has more with a lack of discipline, than a lack of available time or resources.

How can you argue it’s a lack of discipline when companies like Meta and Google literally hire psychologists to make their products more addicting? Why should society pay the price for their malfeasance?

I doubt Y Combinator hired any psychologists, but why does it matter? It's easy to spend too much time on Hacker News too.

There's nothing special about big tech websites that makes them particularly addicting. People spent too much time on BBS's and Usenet and video games back in the day. Or watching TV.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#336

Post by scollet »

quartesixte wrote: post #195

Compared to my parents and grandparents generation, my life is filled with leisure. Basic everyday necessities took up so much of my grandparent’s time when they were younger. A meal would take hours to prep. All the veggies to prep said meal grown. And then the many hours spent cleaning, maintaining, and improving the living space. Social obligations. They basically just worked all day long to just live. Leisure wer…

It's not all perspective. You are a parasite :)

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#337

Post by scollet »

colinmhayes wrote: post #296
hourago wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are probably a well paid engineer or similar. Your experience is valid, but not the most common one.

I really don't think that's true. Everyone in the US has access to smartphones. They may not have large blocks of leisure time, but technology allows the average social media user to be scrolling for over two hours a day. You might not be able to live comfortably on 1 wage, but household responsibilities take much less time due to innovation. Obviously everything isn't rosy, but it's not really like we have less leis…

You are a bold-faced liar. If you have to work to live, leisure does not exist.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#338

Post by scollet »

wutbrodo wrote: post #222
mlom wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not leisure if you don't like it. slavery in entertainment is still slavery.

Can you expand on the slavery analogy? I'm aware that this is the naive perspective, but when I realized I was watching more TV than I liked, I stopped, and there was no overseer to whip, mutilate, or starve me into resuming. That isn't to say that it's trivial: I had to identify why I was doing it (I don't even like watching TV!), and then work on myself so that I had the mental energy to replace it with activities…

If you have to work to live, you are a slave.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#339

Post by scollet »

bagels wrote: post #178
barbecue_sauce wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the USA and I don't know WTF he's talking about.

I live in bay area, haven't made less than 100k since 2002. Obviously pay in Midwest is lower.

Why is that obvious

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#340

Post by scollet »

Firmwarrior wrote: post #194
barbecue_sauce wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the USA and I don't know WTF he's talking about.

Hot take: If you can follow the posts here, you can make 300k in the US Check out the salaries on levels.fyi And no, it is not reasonable to make 100k in the Midwest instead. Unless you're buying like $50,000 worth of gas and eggs per year, you're going to save WAY more in the SF Bay Area and reclaim years of your life by retiring earlier

> If you can follow the posts here

Most people on this site are severely lacking.

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