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Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

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Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#221

Post by BlargMcLarg »

zdragnar wrote: post #206
quartesixte wrote: post #195

Compared to my parents and grandparents generation, my life is filled with leisure. Basic everyday necessities took up so much of my grandparent’s time when they were younger. A meal would take hours to prep. All the veggies to prep said meal grown. And then the many hours spent cleaning, maintaining, and improving the living space. Social obligations. They basically just worked all day long to just live. Leisure wer…

Don't forget making and mending your own clothes, washing them by hand, beating rugs outdoors by hand, all the little chores that have been replaced by electrical tools or are cheaper to purchase than make yourself. Harvesting and chopping firewood, or managing coal. If you visit an Amish community, they might talk about how people occasionally want to join them, only to realize just how much easier modern life is an…

My parents' generation definitely didn't need to do most of what you described, and so did most of my grandparents' lives. They also had a much easier time retiring whereas young people are expected to work almost to their 70s.

Not sure what generations you're talking about, but as sibling said, location and age matter. Boomers had it extremely well here past their 30s and more than enough services available to do the things you described, unless you want to save a bit of money or do something for fun.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#222

Post by wutbrodo »

mlom wrote: post #172
snowwrestler wrote: post #130

It seems obvious that we have no more leisure time now than before. But consider the huge leisure industries that have grown over the past 100 years. Movies, TV, now streaming services. Radio and now Spotify and podcasts. Video games. Sports and all the media around sports. Even social media is arguably mostly entertainment these days. Or look at active leisure. How many more cyclists and rock climbers are there toda…

it's not leisure if you don't like it. slavery in entertainment is still slavery.

Can you expand on the slavery analogy? I'm aware that this is the naive perspective, but when I realized I was watching more TV than I liked, I stopped, and there was no overseer to whip, mutilate, or starve me into resuming.

That isn't to say that it's trivial: I had to identify why I was doing it (I don't even like watching TV!), and then work on myself so that I had the mental energy to replace it with activities I find rewarding, like reading in the park or playing music.

But this sounds more like "making your leisure time fulfilling is a life skill and a mental health challenge", not "leisure time doesn't exist because we're forced to use it on certain things".

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#223

Post by koheripbal »

rakejake wrote: post #219
quartesixte wrote: post #195

Compared to my parents and grandparents generation, my life is filled with leisure. Basic everyday necessities took up so much of my grandparent’s time when they were younger. A meal would take hours to prep. All the veggies to prep said meal grown. And then the many hours spent cleaning, maintaining, and improving the living space. Social obligations. They basically just worked all day long to just live. Leisure wer…

The problem is the absence of leisure during leisure time rather than loss of leisure time. True, there is more time today for hobbies and other such activities than there was previously, and less responsibilities. But the increase in the pace of life sort of compensates for this. I technically waste a lot of time on the internet that could be better served listening to classical music or reading a novel. Yet, I find…

This has more with a lack of discipline, than a lack of available time or resources.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#224

Post by mattkrause »

earth_walker wrote: post #191
snowwrestler wrote: post #130

It seems obvious that we have no more leisure time now than before. But consider the huge leisure industries that have grown over the past 100 years. Movies, TV, now streaming services. Radio and now Spotify and podcasts. Video games. Sports and all the media around sports. Even social media is arguably mostly entertainment these days. Or look at active leisure. How many more cyclists and rock climbers are there toda…

What is leisure anyway? Is it just an easy work/not-work split? I'm not sure it's so easy anymore when so much of our off-work activity is either stress-inducing or basically working for free. Sure, we're not darning socks anymore, but consider this: Is managing one's 'personal brand' on the many social media sites leisure time? If you're doing mundane activities that generates value for a social media company, is it…

Cooking is another good example of how hard it is to separate work and leisure.

Everyone needs to eat, so getting/preparing food is work in some sense. There’s a hobby/leisure component too though: you definitely don’t need to spend two hours every day cooking a perfect coq au vin or visiting farm stands to find the tastiest, most interesting produce. On the gripping hand, doing the absolute bare minimum (Soylent or pot noodles or whatever) might be okay for a little while, but many people don’t find it physically or mentally sufficient for the long term either.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#225

Post by Noumenon72 »

jmyeet wrote: post #79

Common right-wing propaganda is that socialism is a poverty cult. This is particularly prevelant in American culture. It's a complete fabrication. The reality is everyone should enjoy the fruits of their labours to a greater degree than they do today. This is the very idea behind workers owning the means of production. Another way to put this is that every billionaire is a policy failure. A quote that is often mentio…

Anyone who quotes the "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" line has never met a working class person. Nobody thinks that. I worked in a plastic factory for ten years and it's very clear there is no path up from making $45k to anything higher than plant manager. People who are just feeding a grinding machine expect even less.

My feeling is that most of my coworkers felt somewhat exploited and envious, but they didn't buy into ideological propaganda. They just don't go socialist, either because they think it's hopeless, or because they want to distinguish themselves from the low-status welfare recipients just below them. It's more ideological people, like me, who absorb the propaganda and actually believe Jeff Bezos deserves it.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#226

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

bombcar wrote: post #173
jdthedisciple wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Both couple partners have to work in the past only one. Why is it so? I always hear that. I am not married yet but I keep it a little challenge to myself to one day disprove that. I believe with a clever lifestyle of not spending on useless stuff and moving into a cheap region one can easily make that work. So I say, brazenly and naively ...

You can do a single-income family and successfully, but you have to make some choices to do so. I know many who do it, and not all with no kids (some with many). Things like older cars, smaller houses, location differences, etc. But there are major cost savings that offset, especially with the kids. Single car may work out, less gas, less tax, even less food expenses (many people faced with two incomes eat out more,…

If you were the lower earner would you want to stay home? This is an incredibly disadvantageous position to be in.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#227

Post by giraffe_lady »

koheripbal wrote: post #223
rakejake wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the absence of leisure during leisure time rather than loss of leisure time. True, there is more time today for hobbies and other such activities than there was previously, and less responsibilities. But the increase in the pace of life sort of compensates for this. I technically waste a lot of time on the internet that could be better served listening to classical music or reading a novel. Yet, I find…

This has more with a lack of discipline, than a lack of available time or resources.

It's a common, almost universal, complaint which indicates pretty clearly there is more at play than individual virtue.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#228

Post by spacemanmatt »

kqr wrote: post #188
jl2718 wrote: post #163

Every generation looks at technological progress and predicts the obvious conclusion, that people will have more leisure time. It’s easy to see that what you are doing now will be easier and quicker. They don’t see the new things that people will be doing, new social structures to adapt and compete in, new information to process, and especially the cognitive burden of managing risk in so many new choices. The simples…

The other classic example is the washing machine. Insane time-saver. The effect? Spare time? Nope, we walk around is much, much cleaner clothes.

There is simply no way throwing my stuff in the washer every week could cost anywhere near hand washing, unless I simply wore dirty clothes 9 months out of the year.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#229

Post by kubb »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #125
thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being responsible for your own insurance while gigging makes this seem less feasible given the cost.

I agree, but insurance is part of the pay. Im a bit skeptical that the poster would actually be happy with 10% pay, which would probably not cover the insurance, shelter, and food they are used to. That said, I am open minded and there are certainly people that do live on 10% of a SWE salary. You can rent a mobile home in a low CoL area, get on Medicaid, and have a lot of free time. Some people do exactly this, but i…

Realistically, I would need 30% of my pay to live a modest, but safe life.
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