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Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

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Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#191

Post by earth_walker »

snowwrestler wrote: post #130

It seems obvious that we have no more leisure time now than before. But consider the huge leisure industries that have grown over the past 100 years. Movies, TV, now streaming services. Radio and now Spotify and podcasts. Video games. Sports and all the media around sports. Even social media is arguably mostly entertainment these days. Or look at active leisure. How many more cyclists and rock climbers are there toda…

What is leisure anyway? Is it just an easy work/not-work split? I'm not sure it's so easy anymore when so much of our off-work activity is either stress-inducing or basically working for free. Sure, we're not darning socks anymore, but consider this:

Is managing one's 'personal brand' on the many social media sites leisure time?

If you're doing mundane activities that generates value for a social media company, is it leisure time? For example vetting, posting and re-posting ad copy is basically a low-level marketing job, yet a large percentage of the population say that they spend hours a day doing this.

What percentage of our 'leisure time' is spent watching or listening to ads? Is that truly leisure?

I guess the argument goes that we choose if and when to do these things - I wonder how much people really feel like they have a choice in the matter anymore.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#192

Post by draw_down »

snowwrestler wrote: post #130

It seems obvious that we have no more leisure time now than before. But consider the huge leisure industries that have grown over the past 100 years. Movies, TV, now streaming services. Radio and now Spotify and podcasts. Video games. Sports and all the media around sports. Even social media is arguably mostly entertainment these days. Or look at active leisure. How many more cyclists and rock climbers are there toda…

No post body was provided.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#193

Post by jdthedisciple »

bombcar wrote: post #173
jdthedisciple wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Both couple partners have to work in the past only one. Why is it so? I always hear that. I am not married yet but I keep it a little challenge to myself to one day disprove that. I believe with a clever lifestyle of not spending on useless stuff and moving into a cheap region one can easily make that work. So I say, brazenly and naively ...

You can do a single-income family and successfully, but you have to make some choices to do so. I know many who do it, and not all with no kids (some with many). Things like older cars, smaller houses, location differences, etc. But there are major cost savings that offset, especially with the kids. Single car may work out, less gas, less tax, even less food expenses (many people faced with two incomes eat out more,…

Exactly those are the choices I'm willing to make. And I just see most even low-income people waste so, so, SO much money on the most stupid of things that I always think to myself man, with my spending habits it must be so easy to pull of.

Your last point is very good as well. I wouldn't want my wife to do nothing, just not slave off at some stupid corporate 9-5 job lessening her, mine and our children's quality of life. There are so many options for quality remote work these days.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#194

Post by Firmwarrior »

barbecue_sauce wrote: post #117
mettamage wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA != world I can’t easily make six figures, nor can SWEs in many other places of the world. With that said, I do enjoy more leisure (4 day workweek). I know that’s a privilege as well. Greetings from Europe

I live in the USA and I don't know WTF he's talking about.

Hot take: If you can follow the posts here, you can make 300k in the US

Check out the salaries on levels.fyi

And no, it is not reasonable to make 100k in the Midwest instead. Unless you're buying like $50,000 worth of gas and eggs per year, you're going to save WAY more in the SF Bay Area and reclaim years of your life by retiring earlier

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#195

Post by quartesixte »

Compared to my parents and grandparents generation, my life is filled with leisure.

Basic everyday necessities took up so much of my grandparent’s time when they were younger. A meal would take hours to prep. All the veggies to prep said meal grown. And then the many hours spent cleaning, maintaining, and improving the living space. Social obligations. They basically just worked all day long to just live. Leisure were for festivals, holidays, and the rare moments where there was everything was done ahead of schedule.

I can—daily-exercise with my hobby sport of choice, eat at any restaurant of any cuisine at my choosing, watch and read more media than my grandparents couldn’t even imagine existing, and talk with strangers around globe.

It’s all perspective. We’ve definitely improved as a society. We can do better though. But we still have come pretty far.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#196

Post by [deleted] »

Firmwarrior wrote: post #194
barbecue_sauce wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the USA and I don't know WTF he's talking about.

Hot take: If you can follow the posts here, you can make 300k in the US Check out the salaries on levels.fyi And no, it is not reasonable to make 100k in the Midwest instead. Unless you're buying like $50,000 worth of gas and eggs per year, you're going to save WAY more in the SF Bay Area and reclaim years of your life by retiring earlier

[deleted]

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#197

Post by Firmwarrior »

bombcar wrote: post #171
closedloop129 wrote: post #107

>The antidote is simple to prescribe but hard to achieve: it is a return to the goal of efficiency in work—fulfilling whatever needs we have, as a society, with the minimal effort required, while leaving the option of more work as a hobby for those who happen to love it. What's the acceptable minimum? Society could become like an army, with the same clothing for everybody, a small personal area to sleep and a canteen…

> What's the acceptable minimum? Society could become like an army, with the same clothing for everybody, a small personal area to sleep and a canteen for food. Everything could be highly automated. We could experiment by making that available as a baseline - anyone who wants to can sleep in the flophouse, wear the durable clothes, eat the soup kitchen food. And anyone who wants more could continue as they are.

Man, that would be sweet

Right now we theoretically have that, but in practice it's a Kafka-esque bureaucratic nightmare to partake in social services, and once you fall of the Employment Train it's extremely hard to get back on unless you have connections or very valuable skills

I wonder what society would be like with a perfect safety net.. I'm kinda worried we'd end up with horrible ghettoes full of disgruntled people like the future in Judge Dredd, but I want to believe that society would adjust and we'd value connecting to other people, learning, and enriching ourselves

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#198

Post by heretogetout »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #125
thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being responsible for your own insurance while gigging makes this seem less feasible given the cost.

I agree, but insurance is part of the pay. Im a bit skeptical that the poster would actually be happy with 10% pay, which would probably not cover the insurance, shelter, and food they are used to. That said, I am open minded and there are certainly people that do live on 10% of a SWE salary. You can rent a mobile home in a low CoL area, get on Medicaid, and have a lot of free time. Some people do exactly this, but i…

I'd absolutely accept 10% pay for a four hour schedule, but I have been working for a long time and have built up enough investments to live on that and gains. It's nearly early retirement. I don't think I'd do it if I was young, though.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#199

Post by CodeSgt »

bombcar wrote: post #186
CodeSgt wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We work more in large part because we consume much more. Increased consumption requires increased supply which requires increased production which means more work to be done.

Debt also provides a large motivator, and just as you get close to being out of it you easily pick up more.

Debt is just a product of consumption.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#200

Post by jdthedisciple »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #184
jdthedisciple wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Both couple partners have to work in the past only one. Why is it so? I always hear that. I am not married yet but I keep it a little challenge to myself to one day disprove that. I believe with a clever lifestyle of not spending on useless stuff and moving into a cheap region one can easily make that work. So I say, brazenly and naively ...

Why is it so? New houses have more than doubled in size since the 1950s while holding one less occupant on average. Houses have a lot more amenities than they used to have, like AC and a clothes dryer instead of a clothes line. We have torn down about a million SROs* since the 1950s and largely zoned out of existence the ability to build new Missing Middle housing. We are more car oriented than in the past and cars a…

I guess those are US statistics but housing has gotten more and more expensive basically everywhere. Can't do much about that.

Thanks for the recommendation!

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