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Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

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Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#231

Post by kubb »

theptip wrote: post #214
kubb wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, no company hires you for 10 or 20% in software engineering, while still paying enough that you could sustain yourself. The minimum is 80%, because it still the most of your time, so it seems reasonable in the work oriented society.

You can definitely get contracting gigs (Upwork at the bottom tier) or consulting work to work only 10-20% hours. Depending on your skill set you might find it easier to do “blocks” of 20-hour weeks to align with client needs, then take blocks of time off. It’s doable, but not on a standard employment contract.

Thanks, this is constructive and useful! I have no idea how to look into that, but if I manage to land something like that, I could reduce my working week.

No idea how to deal with the uncertainty of being able to get enough contracts that pay enough.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#232

Post by mirrorlake »

onesafari wrote: post #190
snowwrestler wrote: post #130

It seems obvious that we have no more leisure time now than before. But consider the huge leisure industries that have grown over the past 100 years. Movies, TV, now streaming services. Radio and now Spotify and podcasts. Video games. Sports and all the media around sports. Even social media is arguably mostly entertainment these days. Or look at active leisure. How many more cyclists and rock climbers are there toda…

It's funny seeing so many people who spend hours every day on social media or Netflix or Steam claim that they have no time. We can see the data on how many hours are being consumed. What explains that?

My armchair hypothesis is that using your phone, internet, or TV lacks sensory novelty--you frequently sit in the same place, doing the same thing.

It's a repeated stimuli, which causes your brain to filter a lot of it and discard it, leading to the feeling like a night watching TV was a night doing nothing. Your memory of watching TV blends with all memories of you watching TV, especially after a few days have passed.

You have to switch up your routine and do something new or otherwise different, and you will retain a memory of that event much more clearly and it will feel like you "did something".

My most clear memory of a night in the past week was game night where we played a physical card game. I don't remember any individual night where we watched TV.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#233

Post by kubb »

tayo42 wrote: post #218
kubb wrote: post #48

I have several fantastic things that I love doing and work makes it very hard for me to pursue them. One of them is philosophy. There is a great deal of benefit and pleasure that a person can derive from learning about about and understanding the arguments that have been made across the centuries. Another is physical activity. It feels great to move your body, it makes you so much happier than sitting at a desk. Anot…

> One of them is philosophy. There is a great deal of benefit and pleasure that a person can derive from learning about about and understanding the arguments that have been made across the centuries. Do you just enjoy reading about it and that's it? Or how do you make philisophy interactive and interesting beyond satisfying curiousites? I got kind of into some sub topics of philosophy, but lost a lot of motivation on…

I'm learning about the history of ideas and the arguments used to defend or challenge them. Reading philosophical texts is the way to do that.

Understanding such a text often is an interactive experience - you formulate your own claims and try to relate then to the argument that the text contains. It's challenging but very satisfying.

Nevertheless, it helps to have teachers - joining courses lead by people who learned philosophy in academia is a common way to find them. YMMV, and it depends on what's available to you locally.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#235

Post by boeingUH60 »

briantakita wrote: post #155
dang wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of over-the-top flamewar comment is off topic on HN. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. We've had to ask you before not to post like this. If you keep it up, we're going to have to ban you—not because we disagree with your views (we don't know or care what those are) but because we don't want this place to burn to a crisp. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/news…

So you respond by being hyperbolic...If you want to ban me, go ahead. I have no intention in creating a "flamewar". I'm not sure what exactly I'm "destroying" here so go ahead & do whatever you see fit...As far as I'm concerned, I made a statement of truth with historical analogy. Is history now verboten as an "over-the-top flamewar"? You have proven my point of group coercion & why it is dangerous for individuals to…

I’m not dang…But if you can’t see what’s wrong with your comment, then it’s on you.

Comparing the role of middle managers to “house negros” or prison gang leaders is emotionally-charged drivel.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#236

Post by seanmcdirmid »

kube-system wrote: post #213
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it'll have a lawn instead of a tent city. Having lived in Toledo before, the Midwest has its own economic problems (yes, not even the unhoused want to setup tent cities there).

There's bad spots, of course. But there are no shortage of pleasant places with dirt cheap housing, which is not the case in the bay area. I've got a safe, friendly, walkable neighborhood, and my mortgage is 6 percent of my gross income. The bay area is not the only place where you can save a lot of money.

Where, may I ask? The Midwest is a huge place with affluent neighborhoods, but those generally aren’t walkable. I enjoyed living in downtown Toledo much more than I did Sylvania (a more affluent suburb next door).

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#237

Post by azemetre »

koheripbal wrote: post #223
rakejake wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the absence of leisure during leisure time rather than loss of leisure time. True, there is more time today for hobbies and other such activities than there was previously, and less responsibilities. But the increase in the pace of life sort of compensates for this. I technically waste a lot of time on the internet that could be better served listening to classical music or reading a novel. Yet, I find…

This has more with a lack of discipline, than a lack of available time or resources.

How can you argue it’s a lack of discipline when companies like Meta and Google literally hire psychologists to make their products more addicting?

Why should society pay the price for their malfeasance?

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#238

Post by granshaw »

onesafari wrote: post #190
snowwrestler wrote: post #130

It seems obvious that we have no more leisure time now than before. But consider the huge leisure industries that have grown over the past 100 years. Movies, TV, now streaming services. Radio and now Spotify and podcasts. Video games. Sports and all the media around sports. Even social media is arguably mostly entertainment these days. Or look at active leisure. How many more cyclists and rock climbers are there toda…

It's funny seeing so many people who spend hours every day on social media or Netflix or Steam claim that they have no time. We can see the data on how many hours are being consumed. What explains that?

In many cases, modern work responsibilities and expectations. Creative/office work is more ambiguous and takes an outsized mental toll compared to physical work. These people need to veg out basically and can only do completely passive leisure activities.

There was an NPR “wait wait don’t tell me” episode question a couple of years back that went “most respondents in the survey said they don’t have the energy after work to do _______” what?

The answer: “anything”

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#239

Post by watwut »

onesafari wrote: post #190
snowwrestler wrote: post #130

It seems obvious that we have no more leisure time now than before. But consider the huge leisure industries that have grown over the past 100 years. Movies, TV, now streaming services. Radio and now Spotify and podcasts. Video games. Sports and all the media around sports. Even social media is arguably mostly entertainment these days. Or look at active leisure. How many more cyclists and rock climbers are there toda…

It's funny seeing so many people who spend hours every day on social media or Netflix or Steam claim that they have no time. We can see the data on how many hours are being consumed. What explains that?

1.) The "it is the same people" thing is your guess, something you want to be true. It is not something born of facts. There are people who play games 30 hours a week ... and then there are people who never play them. And this is the most important point here.

2.) Specifically with Netflix, people watch Netflix while doing other things or when when they are already tired. I turn on tv or listen podcasts when cooking or cleaning or am doing other boring activities. Or when watching small children.

3.) For many people, these are evening activities and activities they use to relax - when they are actually tired. When I watch netflix or turn on game, typically it is in the evening when I am tired. I cant code, I cant read something educational or difficult, my brain is tired.

4.) There are some people who spend a lot of time on Netflix who also say they dont have time. These people pretty often are trying to say polite "no" to whatever you want them. They are trying to reject you without making you feel bad.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#240

Post by TimPC »

Experts missed the way land captures a sizeable portion of the gains of labour just like Henry George said it did. Ricardo had a few things to say about this as well. The result is we can’t create a society affluent in leisure time because rents and mortgages capture enough value to force everyone to work full time. Especially now that two incomes is normal a sizeable portion of families need two incomes to have a shot at paying a mortgage.
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