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Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

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Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#171

Post by bombcar »

closedloop129 wrote: post #107

>The antidote is simple to prescribe but hard to achieve: it is a return to the goal of efficiency in work—fulfilling whatever needs we have, as a society, with the minimal effort required, while leaving the option of more work as a hobby for those who happen to love it. What's the acceptable minimum? Society could become like an army, with the same clothing for everybody, a small personal area to sleep and a canteen…

> What's the acceptable minimum? Society could become like an army, with the same clothing for everybody, a small personal area to sleep and a canteen for food. Everything could be highly automated.

We could experiment by making that available as a baseline - anyone who wants to can sleep in the flophouse, wear the durable clothes, eat the soup kitchen food.

And anyone who wants more could continue as they are.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#172

Post by mlom »

snowwrestler wrote: post #130

It seems obvious that we have no more leisure time now than before. But consider the huge leisure industries that have grown over the past 100 years. Movies, TV, now streaming services. Radio and now Spotify and podcasts. Video games. Sports and all the media around sports. Even social media is arguably mostly entertainment these days. Or look at active leisure. How many more cyclists and rock climbers are there toda…

it's not leisure if you don't like it. slavery in entertainment is still slavery.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#173

Post by bombcar »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #139
tomerbd wrote: post #55

Not only do we have less time: 1. Both couple partners have to work in the past only one. 2. We work more. 3. We take loans (obligate to future work).

> 1. Both couple partners have to work in the past only one. Why is it so? I always hear that. I am not married yet but I keep it a little challenge to myself to one day disprove that. I believe with a clever lifestyle of not spending on useless stuff and moving into a cheap region one can easily make that work. So I say, brazenly and naively ...

You can do a single-income family and successfully, but you have to make some choices to do so. I know many who do it, and not all with no kids (some with many).

Things like older cars, smaller houses, location differences, etc. But there are major cost savings that offset, especially with the kids. Single car may work out, less gas, less tax, even less food expenses (many people faced with two incomes eat out more, and prepare food less).

Seeing people do is on $40k salaries means it should be entirely possible on larger ones. Note that if you want to try, it is almost always best for the lower earner to be the one who "stays home" so as to maximize income and minimize tax.

Also "not working a 9-5" is not synonymous with "no income" - there are actual non-scammy work that can be done at home in spare time if desired, and things like teaching exercise class, coaching, also exist.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#174

Post by paulryanrogers »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #21

I went to a "progressive" school where we had one strange class called "Design For Living". Today we'd probably call it "lifehacking". Among the fascinating and odd topics was a lesson on managing free time. The premise was a (socialist?) vision that everything would be done by robots by 2000, and we would have to find good hobbies and interests, keep fit and volunteer doing good things for our communities. I think d…

All the tradesmen I've talked with say get up or out as soon as you can. Many aspire to be inspectors or managers. A few do it when retired, out of boredom, though they don't seem to do as good a job and work at their own pace.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#175

Post by jeremyjh »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #125
thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being responsible for your own insurance while gigging makes this seem less feasible given the cost.

I agree, but insurance is part of the pay. Im a bit skeptical that the poster would actually be happy with 10% pay, which would probably not cover the insurance, shelter, and food they are used to. That said, I am open minded and there are certainly people that do live on 10% of a SWE salary. You can rent a mobile home in a low CoL area, get on Medicaid, and have a lot of free time. Some people do exactly this, but i…

Most people cannot consider taking the status hit from that even if objectively they’d be much happier.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#176

Post by jl2718 »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #139
tomerbd wrote: post #55

Not only do we have less time: 1. Both couple partners have to work in the past only one. 2. We work more. 3. We take loans (obligate to future work).

> 1. Both couple partners have to work in the past only one. Why is it so? I always hear that. I am not married yet but I keep it a little challenge to myself to one day disprove that. I believe with a clever lifestyle of not spending on useless stuff and moving into a cheap region one can easily make that work. So I say, brazenly and naively ...

> clever lifestyle … not spending … cheap region

This is easy to do alone. Bring a partner into your life and slowly but surely you will be seen as a resource to be maxed out and consumed.

I know billionaires that share your dream. Do it. Save yourself. Go now.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#177

Post by bombcar »

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #145
tomerbd wrote: post #55

Not only do we have less time: 1. Both couple partners have to work in the past only one. 2. We work more. 3. We take loans (obligate to future work).

RE: point 1, it should read "both partners have to work *for wages*; in the past, only one (at most)"

One of the big benefits for single-income households is the "homework" is not counted as wages even if it's definitely work - you have to earn more than the cost of daycare or the gardener to pay for them, for example.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#178

Post by bagels »

barbecue_sauce wrote: post #117
mettamage wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA != world I can’t easily make six figures, nor can SWEs in many other places of the world. With that said, I do enjoy more leisure (4 day workweek). I know that’s a privilege as well. Greetings from Europe

I live in the USA and I don't know WTF he's talking about.

I live in bay area, haven't made less than 100k since 2002. Obviously pay in Midwest is lower.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#179

Post by bombcar »

samhuk wrote: post #58
nonrandomstring wrote: post #21

I went to a "progressive" school where we had one strange class called "Design For Living". Today we'd probably call it "lifehacking". Among the fascinating and odd topics was a lesson on managing free time. The premise was a (socialist?) vision that everything would be done by robots by 2000, and we would have to find good hobbies and interests, keep fit and volunteer doing good things for our communities. I think d…

Nicely written, but I don't fully understand your logic here. The bricklayer's wall in your comparison is precisely analogous to an "update" a developer has to do. The work is not complete for a bricklayer nor a software developer. Just as there is "one more revision or update" as you put it, there is always one more house to build walls for. What I think you may be feeling though, is that working on software sometim…

There's a satisfaction you get when you finish a house - there is something you can point to and say "that is done". There's even a satisfaction with mopping a floor, it is clean now even though it will dirty again.

Most programming doesn't have the first and only sometimes do you get the second. It'd be like building a house and finishing and immediately changing something on it, or fixing something that broke, forever. Programming is like being a contractor building the Winchester mansion.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#180

Post by [deleted] »

OscarCunningham wrote: post #34
fxtentacle wrote: post #24

People do have excess free time. How else can you manage to waste 4+ hours on streaming and social media per day?

I think some of that is not 'free' but 'recharge' time. If you're so exhausted that all you can do is stare at a screen then you're not doing what you really want.

[deleted]
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