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Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

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Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux (and other open-source OSes, obviously) is an environment in which users are able to exercise more freedom in their usage of their computers than virtually anywhere else. While this is true, it's simply not a feature the average user wants at all. They just want it to be simple, and work. > To suggest that users should use a static system or merely accept their updates in 6-month-increments is like suggesting…

>They just want it to be simple, and work. And yet, this isn't orthogonal to still keeping it extensible, transparent and open for learning. Yes, most users might not want or need this. But there might be some who get drawn into it. Never block anyone from learning. >Most users aren't carpenters, they have no interest in crafting their own tools, they just want a decent looking coffee table that doesn't require them…

> And yet, this isn't orthogonal to still keeping it extensible, transparent and open for learning.

They're related. Keeping those things isn't free or easy when most users don't care.

> Everyone is a carpenter in some way. The OS isn't the table, it's the tool.

This is how a programmer thinks; it is exactly tho opposite of what normal people think. Users don't see the os as a tool and have no interest at all in it. The os is the table to them, it launches their apps and that's all they have interest in. They don't want to understand it or tweak it or think of it as a tool.

> "Equals" means to stop treating users like they are generally unable (and unwilling) to learn

But they are generally unable and/or unwilling to learn. You leave me feeling you simply haven't interacted with many normal people. You're talking like most people think like a programmer; they don't.

> I'm not saying you should force people to learn. I'm saying you should give them sane defaults, and the option to learn how to change them if they chose to do so (and ideally, with an easy and obvious way to restore the defaults).

Ubuntu already does this.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Ubuntu is not focusing on the fundamentals and they're not putting enough money into testing. I know well and good that Ubuntu was conceived because Shuttleworth felt that Linux was ready for the big time and that Red Hat etc had too much penchant to devote resources into low-level bickering that ultimately had relatively little effect on your average end user instead of focusing on improving user…

"Far too often things break between releases and/or upgrades." I recently tried to upgrade my older 9.10 install to 10.4 LTS. I got a bunch of errors about x.org upon upgrade (I think maybe because I downloaded and installed Nvidia's Linux driver a while ago), and yep you guessed it - hosed system upon reboot. These sort of showstopper problems should not be occurring - not in the year 2011. Totally inexcusable as fa…

I think they are rushing to keep up with the mainstream OSes and are skirting the details in the process.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#154
post #93
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like those things about Arch, but I would miss apt-get.

I use arch and I never can't find a 'reasonable' package in pacman. If I'm installing something weird or proprietary (e.g., Skype) I just get it from the arch unsupported repo, which is just as easy using a tool called packer. I've never come across something I wanted that I couldn't get from one of those sources. I'd say if anything it's better than apt-get since the packages are updated so often!

I was very hesitatnt, but moved to arch last week and I love it. Pacman is great too. Debian and ubuntu are so good that they are hard to quit, but the recent UI situation pushed me over the edge and I am rather pleased so far.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#155
post #119
post #94

If you swap gnome for ubuntu and gnome3 for Unity you have a brand new story. Part of me sort of blames Ubuntu or Ubuntu's influence for the terrible direction of Gnome in general.

Could you expand on that? I was always under the impression their paths just happened to coincide given Canonical didn't have enough sway to make them adopt their own vision.

No its just a hunch/intuition and me being bitter.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#156
post #67

If people want a different linux experience to Ubuntu's offering, they're in luck, there are hundreds: http://distrowatch.com/ Ubuntu has specifically stated that they're aiming for the layperson, not the power user. If you cut your teeth on ubuntu and want more power in your linux box... try out another distro.

The problem is: Even power users usually want consistency and ease of use. The main advantage of Ubuntu is that it is the best supported Linux distro out there when it comes to software. For allot of desktop centric software , supporting Linux basically means supporting Ubuntu and possibly fedora. Nobody wants to mess with source tarballs just to install the latest video player. I'm a developer but I still want the o…

This. At least with Ubuntu, there is a large enough user base that there is software available for it that is tested and actually works (conveniently available as a binary .deb).

Also, bugs tend to be identified and fixed, again due to the size of the community. If you run into a problem, often times there is already a forum post somewhere with a solution.

If developers are to use an obscure "power user" distribution, it throws out all the benefits of community.

Perhaps what's needed is a "Devbuntu" that relies on most of the same components as Ubuntu, but targets power users.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#157
I've been complaining about Unity since 11.04. The only worthwhile improvement in 11.10 is that Dasher is no longer ugly solid black. Well, the menu in the upper right has some sensible options now. They took away screensavers, like it's up to Canonical to make the world green? I never used them on my systems on a full time basis but it was nice to take a break sometimes and play with them. I can't change fonts now, even my wife who is a non-technical user said, "the new fonts are terrible why can't I change them?".

I'm going to try out KDE for a while, it's heavy or it used to be, Gnome 2 was just right. I've tried XFCE and it feels like an older Gnome (which isn't a bad thing), down the road it might be the better option until they get a wild hair and go nutts too.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#158
post #26

Ubuntu used to be Debian that just worked. Now it's trying to be something more, but it seems to have lost the "just works" part. When I tried 11.10, I had problems with several of the desktop environments crashing or being very visibly broken. I had poor graphics performance. I had no suspend/resume. All of these things worked on the same computer a year ago. I think Ubuntu may be trying to move too fast. Moving fas…

I agree with you. I have been an Ubuntu user since 6.06, and 11.10 was the buggiest release yet, by far. I actually bought a Mac on Friday. I need a development environment that works. I don't like spending time yak-shaving when I could be solving real problems.

same here! I've been mulling over a mac book as this unity desktop is killing me, just have the mac as the desktop, and keep it headless linux.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is: Even power users usually want consistency and ease of use. The main advantage of Ubuntu is that it is the best supported Linux distro out there when it comes to software. For allot of desktop centric software , supporting Linux basically means supporting Ubuntu and possibly fedora. Nobody wants to mess with source tarballs just to install the latest video player. I'm a developer but I still want the o…

This. At least with Ubuntu, there is a large enough user base that there is software available for it that is tested and actually works (conveniently available as a binary .deb). Also, bugs tend to be identified and fixed, again due to the size of the community. If you run into a problem, often times there is already a forum post somewhere with a solution. If developers are to use an obscure "power user" distribution…

I don't think this would solve the problem. Devbuntu would basically just be kubuntu or xbuntu.

If Ubuntu wants to target less technical users it needs to make itself a compelling platform for them which means resolving almost all of the niggling issues and an influx of end user apps, in other words a miracle..

What would be more useful is a more sophisticated UI that can be scaled back by default but have lots of custom options to enable depending on taste. Gnome2 provided this quite well, but I fear that it will be no longer maintained in some silly attempt to poorly imitate other platforms.

If you want uber-simple Linux then what is wrong with android?

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#160
post #115
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Ubuntu is not focusing on the fundamentals and they're not putting enough money into testing. I think you made my point more succinctly than I did. I think the UX was just fine in last year's Ubuntu. You could argue about whether Gnome 2.x was as slick as Windows 7 or OS X (I think it was at least better than Windows), but I don't think there's much doubt the system was usable by non-geeks. The fi…

So the good news is you can move the clock in Gnome 3 Classic. All you have to do is hold Alt to right click on the widget and move. I mean... that's completely obvious right? This has to be one of the worst UI decisions I've ever encountered...

  > that's completely obvious right?
That's (sort of) how you move the items on the right hand side of Apple's menubar in OSX. Hold Alt/Option and drag with the left mouse button.
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