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Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

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Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#31

Post by wyclif »

rhdoenges wrote: post #22
barumrho wrote: post #9

Do a lot of developers use Ubuntu nowadays? When Ubuntu first came along, I was a Linux user, and I tried Ubuntu on a few different occasions, but I never liked it mostly for the same reasons why people seem to be complaining. It just felt like eye candies tacked onto Debian. There are many other good distributions that are geared toward power users. Why are so many complaining?

It seemed too bloated for me, so I switched to Arch Linux and dwm for my windowing. I hardly have to reach over to touch the mouse now and I feel like I control my own computer.

I like those things about Arch, but I would miss apt-get.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#32

Post by pork »

Rusky wrote: post #12
div wrote: post #2

I don't really understand what the author is trying to say. Granted, it's been a while since I used Ubuntu, but as a developer I mainly live in my editor and terminal. Anything I ever wanted is just an apt-get away and is mostly installed in a sensible way. Ubuntu simplifying desktop features and changing defaults to be easier for users like my mom sounds like a great thing to happen to Linux. That stuff is mostly or…

The problem is that Unity doesn't have much in the way of deviation from the standard configuration. They're not just changing defaults, they're removing everything else. This is a problem not for people who are already developers, because they will just install something else and move on, but for new users who won't have anything to discover. The article said "In fact I think Linux has a tendency to encourage averag…

The vast vast majority of people want to click on the Firefox icon and go to Facebook. People have lives that are busy, and the computer is a tool to get a job done. How many people "explore" the engine of their cars? Not many.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#33

Post by jrockway »

ricardobeat wrote: post #29
Rusky wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Unity doesn't have much in the way of deviation from the standard configuration. They're not just changing defaults, they're removing everything else. This is a problem not for people who are already developers, because they will just install something else and move on, but for new users who won't have anything to discover. The article said "In fact I think Linux has a tendency to encourage averag…

Why should new users have "something to discover"? They want to use the machine, not discover how it works.

Perhaps true, perhaps not. Some people don't want to invest time and energy to save time and energy later. Others do. A good Linux desktop should be able to cater to both types of user.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#34

Post by Cieplak »

This is somehow reminiscent of Sun Tzu's _Art of War_.

My interpretation of the article: it would be more prudent to compete with Apple's weaknesses (developer friendliness) than to compete with their strengths (UI, zero configuration).

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#35

Post by redthrowaway »

gnaritas wrote: post #14
gue5t wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu fails to showcase many of the best aspects of Linux as a system. Linux (and other open-source OSes, obviously) is an environment in which users are able to exercise more freedom in their usage of their computers than virtually anywhere else. Instead of an environment in which "users" are at the mercy of "developers", the instruction manual is included. Anyone can change their computer's behavior to the extent…

> Linux (and other open-source OSes, obviously) is an environment in which users are able to exercise more freedom in their usage of their computers than virtually anywhere else. While this is true, it's simply not a feature the average user wants at all. They just want it to be simple, and work. > To suggest that users should use a static system or merely accept their updates in 6-month-increments is like suggesting…

Who are "most users" here? I've only seen one or two linux distros in the wild that weren't being used by devs or other power users.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#37

Post by nsomaru »

jsz0 wrote: post #6

What percentage of users are developers? 5 percent? Lower? It's unwise to cater the entire OS to the needs of such a small minority especially when they are the best suited to change the environment to meet their needs. Complaining about needing to download Xcode is a perfect example of why it is wrong. If it's bundled into the OS you're wasting 4GB of space on tens of millions of machines to save the 5% a 4GB downlo…

I think the point was that it should not be a 4GB download to get a C-compiler.

Your point makes sense if you accept a 4GB download just for a compiler.

There are many Linux distro's that come with a C-compiler which are less than 4GB in total size.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#38

Post by oblique63 »

redthrowaway wrote: post #35
gnaritas wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux (and other open-source OSes, obviously) is an environment in which users are able to exercise more freedom in their usage of their computers than virtually anywhere else. While this is true, it's simply not a feature the average user wants at all. They just want it to be simple, and work. > To suggest that users should use a static system or merely accept their updates in 6-month-increments is like suggesting…

Who are "most users" here? I've only seen one or two linux distros in the wild that weren't being used by devs or other power users.

That may be true, but isn't that what Ubuntu is trying to change?

Sure, as a dev/power user I might be annoyed with some of the changes they make here and there, but as a linux supporter, I'd be much more annoyed if they weren't actively trying to expand to a broader audience. Regardless of how they're going about it, I'm just glad they're actually doing something in that area.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#39

Post by shasta »

sofuture wrote: post #5

I think Ubuntu should zag where Apple zags. I think they're doing it right. They're in a unique position to take an Apple-like path. I, for one, applaud what they're doing, as much as it terrifies all the half-power-users (I don't mean that as a slight, I do think it's a little silly to get upset about Ubuntu's default WM and claim to 'understand UNIX').

Exactly. If they get close to apple quality, they easily win on price.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#40

Post by Samuel_Michon »

jrockway wrote: post #33
ricardobeat wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should new users have "something to discover"? They want to use the machine, not discover how it works.

Perhaps true, perhaps not. Some people don't want to invest time and energy to save time and energy later. Others do. A good Linux desktop should be able to cater to both types of user.

"Some people don't want to invest time and energy to save time and energy later."

I believe the phrasing you were looking for is "the vast majority".

Apple concentrates on providing a good experience for that vast majority. Everyone else can use OS X's CLI or tools like Automator, AppleScript, Xcode, Dashcode and MacRuby (all for free, albeit not all of it is 'free software').

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