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Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

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Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#121

Post by WhompingWindows »

lettergram wrote: post #102
eyelidlessness wrote: post #100

It’s worth mentioning that ADHD also increases the risk of depression. Along with anxiety, depression is one of the most common comorbidities particularly in people with undiagnosed ADHD. I didn’t take ADHD meds as a kid, so I can’t speak to their effect on me. But when diagnosed as an adult, I had suffered nearly my whole life with chronic depression and anxiety. Both reached a crisis level a few years back, which w…

> worth mentioning that ADHD also increases the risk of depression I don’t think that’s true, I thought it was a correlation, not causation.

Consider: ADHD reduces executive functions, which are like the "secretary" of the mind. This means they can not direct attention onto where they need to: work, school, onto family and friends, etc. Those with ADHD have less 3 friendships on average, due to less ability to hold their attention on others. As they age, they may find relief in drugs like cocaine, caffeine, nicotine, and THC, which may lead to more drug abuse than neurotypical people. They're more likely to commit suicide. These are evidence-backed conclusions from the literature, which I reviewed for my MS.

All of these problems then feed into depression and anxiety. Is that so hard to believe? Less friends, less success, more abuse of substances, it's a potentially rough life.

If so, look at these articles, which review the hard evidence and find there's very strong links between ADHD and depression, and anxiety: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990565/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6493806/

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#122

Post by falcolas »

Avamander wrote: post #94
robonerd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I'll never be able to succeed" Is it the condition which causes this, or the diagnosis of the condition? I think diagnoses can easily inspire feelings of futility. It's no longer something you can change about yourself by wanting to change, it becomes a medical condition you've been stuck with.

It's the condition. You can try place your hand on a glowing hot stove. Couldn't? Imagine that with every task, however willing or not you are. Some have it better, some worse. Just one side of the disorder already being a big hindrance.

Fantastic analogy, because that hesitation is something everybody can relate to.

All that's missing is how there's no consequence underlying that hesitation; how you can't justify why you can't do the task.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#123

Post by lghh »

immacoward2022 wrote: post #116
eyelidlessness wrote: post #100

It’s worth mentioning that ADHD also increases the risk of depression. Along with anxiety, depression is one of the most common comorbidities particularly in people with undiagnosed ADHD. I didn’t take ADHD meds as a kid, so I can’t speak to their effect on me. But when diagnosed as an adult, I had suffered nearly my whole life with chronic depression and anxiety. Both reached a crisis level a few years back, which w…

throwaway account ---- - ('if You Have ADHD, You Are Likely To Be depressed'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkXpcs_an80 - ('why does your adhd make things so hard'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svD71EJWOBU I'm a "closet'ed" adhd person and these books have helped: - Anxiety and Panic: How to Reshape Your Anxious Mind and Brain by Harry Barry - ADHD 2.0 by Edward M. Hallowell M.D. & John J. Ratey M.D.

If you don't mind me asking, why are you closeted about your ADHD? I am 30 and was recently diagnosed and it's one of the most liberating things that has ever happened to me.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#124

Post by adastra22 »

lettergram wrote: post #96
adastra22 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with ADHD, who has a kid with ADHD, this dismissive attitude is really unwelcome. Inattentiveness is a real symptom with drastic life-altering effects for which medication is a godsend. Studies have shown that exposure to screen time does not result in ADHD. To be told "you're just a bad parent who lets their kid watch an iPad too much" is infuriating. (I'm trying to keep things civil per the site rules, b…

Sounds like you’re not up to date on research, there’s a few citations in later comments. Anyway, I don’t think the poster was saying it doesn’t exist. They appear to be saying there are correlations and often a diagnosis at a young age is a reflection more on a willingness to accept a hyper child vs not. That is to say, a child can have ADHD, but that doesn’t mean you have to medicate them. Medicating them (again at…

He pointed to a paper which I haven't had time to read yet. At risk of sounding like a general dismissal I'll say three outcomes are possible:

1) The study is right and every doctor and medical institution I've talked to is wrong.

2) The study's results are being generalized too far or misinterpreted. E.g. I've been told (and it's true in my experience) ADHD people tend to be attracted to screens for the dopamine hit and characteristically lack self-control, rather than the screens causing ADHD.

3) The study is cherry-picked and wrong. Either it is an abnormal result that doesn't replicate, or the study was badly constructed.

Given the fact that my doctors gave me multiple studies to look at which showed the exact opposite conclusion, my prior leads me to believe (2) or (3) over the first possibility. I'll skim the study he posted later though when I have time.

My anicdata doesn't constitute medical science, so it's entirely possible that this study is right and I am wrong, and I'm big enough to admit that. I wouldn't bet on that outcome though, in this case.

EDIT: Also one point you may or may not be aware of is that non-medicative interventions for ADHD are at best a coping mechanism and never satisfactorily address the underlying issues. In the words of my doc: if you are diagnosed with ADHD and you can solve your problems completely with therapy and just going outside or whatever, you didn't have ADHD in the first place and the diagnosis was wrong. Actual ADHD is when your brain is wired up a different way, and general lifestyle interventions can't address the problems that causes.

ADHD people have spent their entire lives feeling frustrated and powerless as the well-meaning people around them tell to simply "stop being so distracted!". Believe me, if we could turn it off we would. It's not so simple. The poster above is making essentially the same critique: that it's not the kid's neural chemistry or wiring that is causing them issues; it's the parent's fault. Stop being a bad parent!

That's worse than unhelpful.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#125

Post by Avamander »

TrevorJ wrote: post #108
n8cpdx wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re getting a high from it, your dose is too high. If there is a “brutal” come down, your dose is too high. What do you consider a “small” dose?

First off, do you are assuming that everyone reacts to drugs in the same way? I was taking 1/5th to 1/10th of a 'normal' dose. Secondly, if you do a few minutes of research online you will find that both issues (the high, and the comedown) is not at all an uncommon complaint. Ritalin is a CNS stimulant. With respect, you are being a bit too condescending relative to the amount of knowledge of the issue you posses.

They aren't assuming it about you specifically. It's just a common part of the process, with a common solution. It's likely a very valid question.

If you're one of the few for whom it didn't work out, cool. But with equal respect, your anecdotal experience is not sufficient to call it "legal cocaine". Neither is it sufficient to make generilizations about how medical care of ADHD should be approached.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#126

Post by aaomidi »

lghh wrote: post #123
immacoward2022 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

throwaway account ---- - ('if You Have ADHD, You Are Likely To Be depressed'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkXpcs_an80 - ('why does your adhd make things so hard'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svD71EJWOBU I'm a "closet'ed" adhd person and these books have helped: - Anxiety and Panic: How to Reshape Your Anxious Mind and Brain by Harry Barry - ADHD 2.0 by Edward M. Hallowell M.D. & John J. Ratey M.D.

If you don't mind me asking, why are you closeted about your ADHD? I am 30 and was recently diagnosed and it's one of the most liberating things that has ever happened to me.

Different places treat ADHD differently. In some countries if you are diagnosed with it you won’t be able to, for example, drive a car.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#127

Post by aaomidi »

lettergram wrote: post #102
eyelidlessness wrote: post #100

It’s worth mentioning that ADHD also increases the risk of depression. Along with anxiety, depression is one of the most common comorbidities particularly in people with undiagnosed ADHD. I didn’t take ADHD meds as a kid, so I can’t speak to their effect on me. But when diagnosed as an adult, I had suffered nearly my whole life with chronic depression and anxiety. Both reached a crisis level a few years back, which w…

> worth mentioning that ADHD also increases the risk of depression I don’t think that’s true, I thought it was a correlation, not causation.

It absolutely is.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#129

Post by thomastjeffery »

TrevorJ wrote: post #97
CodeMage wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more horrifying to me that HN has turned into a kind of place where people will confidently assert their judgment something they have no knowledge about. My son has ADHD. There are other ADHD cases in the family, so we knew that could be the case with him, but we waited until he was in middle school to even try to check, because we didn't want him to "depend on drugs", as the trope goes. We got the diagnosis fro…

Two things can be true at the same time. Some kids truly do have a disorder that benefits from medication. Some kids are prescribed medication they don't need simply so they are able to do something that no child should reasonable be expect to do: sit in a chair and listen to people talk at them for 8+ hours a day. One truth does not preclude the other.

I sat at a desk for 8+ hours a day, then I proceeded to sit at a desk for another 2-4 hours.

I didn't have a singular issue with sitting at a desk. I could - and in fact did - sit at a desk from sun up to sun down 5 days a week without complaint.

Did I resent it? Yes. Do I think schooling should have been done differently? Yes. Could doing school differently have cured my ADHD symptoms? No. Absolutely not.

Living with undiagnosed ADHD is hell, whether you are a child or an adult.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#130

Post by CodeMage »

TrevorJ wrote: post #97
CodeMage wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more horrifying to me that HN has turned into a kind of place where people will confidently assert their judgment something they have no knowledge about. My son has ADHD. There are other ADHD cases in the family, so we knew that could be the case with him, but we waited until he was in middle school to even try to check, because we didn't want him to "depend on drugs", as the trope goes. We got the diagnosis fro…

Two things can be true at the same time. Some kids truly do have a disorder that benefits from medication. Some kids are prescribed medication they don't need simply so they are able to do something that no child should reasonable be expect to do: sit in a chair and listen to people talk at them for 8+ hours a day. One truth does not preclude the other.

That's true. And it's also true that ADHD is overdiagnosed and overtreated, and the rate is non-negligible.

That is a problem that both the public and the medical community are aware of. I agree with maintaining awareness of that, but I strongly disagree with going to the extremes and stigmatizing ADHD medication and everyone involved.

Look at the comment I objected to. Does it read like a rational, polite way to maintain awareness of that problem? Or does it look like a knee-jerk judgment that's parroting a popular trope?

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