Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up • Hacker News Board

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#61

Post by dymk » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 4:27 PM UTC

robonerd wrote: post #45

falcolas wrote: post #19

FWIW, ADHD increases the risk of depression too. Executive Function Disorder creates a lot of internal thoughts of "I'm a loser" "I'll never be able to succeed", and so forth. Though, being fair, those are thoughts other people will direct at those with ADHD as well.

> "I'll never be able to succeed" Is it the condition which causes this, or the diagnosis of the condition? I think diagnoses can easily inspire feelings of futility. It's no longer something you can change about yourself by wanting to change, it becomes a medical condition you've been stuck with.

It's the condition that causes it. One of the diagnostic criteria for ADHD is anxiety over not being able to get things done. Your comment sounds dismissive of the real adverse impact of ADHD on one's inherent executive function; rather it's just someone being too "in their head" after they're giving a diagnosis.

> it becomes a medical condition you've been stuck with

90-ish% of people with ADHD respond well to stimulants, and have complete remission of symptoms. And for those who don't respond well to stimulants, we have bupropion, etc.

It's the one class of mental disorders where medication is very effective. For almost all with ADHD, it's not something you're "stuck" with.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#62

Post by falcolas » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 4:27 PM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

> School is not that important.

I'd make a comment about how office work mirrors education, but if we do decide to treat school as unimportant, it's not like children would be able to get such jobs.

Instead they'd be more likely to get jobs doing manual labor, destroying their bodies before they've past their mid 30's.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#63

Post by user_7832 » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 4:28 PM UTC

robonerd wrote: post #45

falcolas wrote: post #19

FWIW, ADHD increases the risk of depression too. Executive Function Disorder creates a lot of internal thoughts of "I'm a loser" "I'll never be able to succeed", and so forth. Though, being fair, those are thoughts other people will direct at those with ADHD as well.

> "I'll never be able to succeed" Is it the condition which causes this, or the diagnosis of the condition? I think diagnoses can easily inspire feelings of futility. It's no longer something you can change about yourself by wanting to change, it becomes a medical condition you've been stuck with.

It can be because the person will try to do things repeatedly, fail/be unsuccessful (due to executive dysfunction) and just feel shitty about their life overall.

And by doing things it can even be "basic" stuff like laundry etc.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#64

Post by oliveshell » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 4:28 PM UTC

avgDev wrote: post #20

I hate sounding like an alarmist....but something is extremely wrong with how physicians handle adverse reactions. So, I took a flouroquinolone and had a text book reaction. 50+ physicians later at mayo and other top US hospitals and I was gaslighted more than helped in any way. I am now in a group for sufferers and meet new people daily, who took the drug and the doctor completely dismissed their neurological issues…

The quinolone antibiotics in general seem to be a really nasty class of drug, with a long list of rare but serious and potentially permanent side effects in susceptible people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinolone_antibiotic#Adverse_e...

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-03267-5

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#65

Post by terracatta » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

citilife wrote: post #17

pflats wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study also does not claim to show a causal relationship.

I was actually going to point that out. IMO from what I've seen of parents are that people who bring their children at a young-ish age to a therapist have a different issue. Especially "being to hyper" or "being unable to focus" have a different issue. Children are supposed to be outside moving 8-12 hours a day, have you seen puppies? They need something similar. Instead many parents give their children tablets, plop…

> Every child I know diagnosed with ADHD had parents who didn't want to deal with them

You must not know many parents then.

Parents I know that have children with ADHD recognize their children are struggling beyond simple hyperactivity. These are children that are markedly behind their peers in childhood milestones regardless of their family upbringing, education, and socio-economic status. These are children that have a deficiency in the executive function of their brains where hyperactivity is one of many symptoms, and is not even necessarily the most worrying.

These are children that struggle with simple tasks that other children do not.

Parents of these children are no less loving, caring, or capable than parents without ADHD children. Parents should not be shamed for using effective medications (like MDH) so their children can have positive outcomes in their development and adult-life.

> What we really need is a strong emphasis on family development, courses built around it and support groups

ADHD is generally a disorder that you are born with. No amount of family development can prevent the disease.

Educate yourself by watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQu-OPrzUc&t=137s

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#66

Post by Djvacto » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #37

adastra22 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with ADHD, who has a kid with ADHD, this dismissive attitude is really unwelcome. Inattentiveness is a real symptom with drastic life-altering effects for which medication is a godsend. Studies have shown that exposure to screen time does not result in ADHD. To be told "you're just a bad parent who lets their kid watch an iPad too much" is infuriating. (I'm trying to keep things civil per the site rules, b…

Maybe don't take it personally, I think they're saying that much of society is doing it wrong. EDIT: But yes, they’re also saying that many parents are doing it wrong, and they’re assigning much of the blame to parenting. My point was that when a huge percentage of parents are “doing it wrong”, maybe there’s some wider systemic thing at play. Like economic forces that make people work harder than they should if they…

Even if I wasn't someone with ADHD, the comment in question is dismissive of what ADHD actually is, as well as the very-valid treatment of getting medication.

Like I said in my comment, they pointed out some real problems, but made sweeping generalizations, mostly negative, about the people in question.

ADHD is not well understood by a lot of people, and someone with or without ADHD who is well-versed in the topic pointing out that their comment is not helpful to discussion about how to treat the disorder, shouldn't be dismissed as them "Taking it personally".

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#67

Post by jobu » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

adastra22 wrote: post #44

jobu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the parent of a child with ADHD that is medicated, it seems completely plausible that it could cause depression. When my kid has had too high a dosage (or accidentally takes a double dose) she's like a zombie, completely flat affect, and very little motivation. It's like it drains her life away. Part of the problem is that it's very difficult to get the right dosage for any given day because diet, metabolism, and…

What is she taking?

It's changed a few times over the years because of insurance, but right now it's Focalin XR and 5mg Ritalin as needed up to 2 times a day.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#68

Post by adastra22 » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

robonerd wrote: post #45

falcolas wrote: post #19

FWIW, ADHD increases the risk of depression too. Executive Function Disorder creates a lot of internal thoughts of "I'm a loser" "I'll never be able to succeed", and so forth. Though, being fair, those are thoughts other people will direct at those with ADHD as well.

> "I'll never be able to succeed" Is it the condition which causes this, or the diagnosis of the condition? I think diagnoses can easily inspire feelings of futility. It's no longer something you can change about yourself by wanting to change, it becomes a medical condition you've been stuck with.

This hasn't been the case for anyone I know who has been diagnosed. For all of us it was immensely empowering:

"Oh all that stuff I've been struggling with wasn't actually my fault? With this magic pill I can get stuff done too and not feel like an imposter all the time? Heck yea!"

I can imagine what you saying applying to some childhood diagnoses. I cannot speak to anyone I know who was diagnosed in childhood thinking that way though.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#69

Post by IntrepidWorm » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #47

carlmcqueen wrote: post #26

I'm not a doctor, but as a family member and extended family member, I know that many bipolar children appear with ADHD in their early years and are treated with ADHD medication. They are treated with stimulants that have no effect on bipolar disorder.

Back when I was diagnosed with Bi-Polar disorder (I actually had ADHD and a touch of autism, but whatever), they put me on Lithium. I'd rather be on a small methamphetamine dose than Lithium if I got to choose my misdiagnosis.

Can you clarify the aversion to lithium? I was under the impression from multiple friends and family on it that out of many of the other drug cocktails prescribed to manage bipolar disorder, lithium was one of the tamer and more effective medications.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#70

Post by falcolas » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

robonerd wrote: post #45

falcolas wrote: post #19

FWIW, ADHD increases the risk of depression too. Executive Function Disorder creates a lot of internal thoughts of "I'm a loser" "I'll never be able to succeed", and so forth. Though, being fair, those are thoughts other people will direct at those with ADHD as well.

> "I'll never be able to succeed" Is it the condition which causes this, or the diagnosis of the condition? I think diagnoses can easily inspire feelings of futility. It's no longer something you can change about yourself by wanting to change, it becomes a medical condition you've been stuck with.

The condition. It's abso-fucking-lutely the condition.

Executive Dysfunction means you're screaming in your head to stand up and get work done, but your brain just keeps browsing hacker news. And not just monthly or weekly, but hourly. Sometimes even every few minutes.

Diagnosed or undiagnosed.