Scotland starts renewed case for independence

Post by jeremyjh » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 11:42 AM UTC

Danieru wrote: post #177

osullivj wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Northern Ireland is not a nation. Ireland is a nation with four provinces: Ulster, Leinster, Munster and Connaught. Six of Ulster's nine counties are part of the UK, and the other three are part of the Repulblic of Ireland.

The Irish are a nation, a people with a unique language and identity. That is what OP is referring to. It the same definition of nation as in "nation state". Namely a nation state is a state with one dominant people. Germany, Japan, Thailand, Ireland, are nation states. US, UK, are by their nature not nation states. So yes, North Ireland represents a nation seperate to the English, the Welsh, or the Scotts.

Post by afandian » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 11:43 AM UTC

dubeye wrote: post #206

physicsguy wrote: post #46

With hard headed view, I struggle to see that an independent Scotland will be economically able to deal with large cuts to public sector spending that would almost certainly be required. Per capita spending is already higher in Scotland than in the rest of the UK. Scottish companies have debts denominated in pounds. There would almost certainly be capital flight to rUK. Large businesses may relocate. There is no plan…

I very much doubt many scottish voters will pay too much attention to the economics. Are constitutional referendums ever really about economics? Brexit certainly wasn't

Post by Semaphor » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 11:43 AM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #110

Semaphor wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a third of those voting for independence also want(ed) independence from the EU Do you have a source for that? I only heard of the opposite, but that was mainly Reddit and HN where Europeans are usually pretty pro-EU.

No, because if I search for the polls that show it I only get results for this news! Sorry. There were a few polls that showed it at the time of both referendums, the BBC definitely covered it. If I find one in amongst the sea of bad search results I'll post it. It shouldn't be a surprise logically, as the cases can be seen as similar, but the media prefer the simple black and white cases so we're a rarely spoken of…

Post by cjrp » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 11:44 AM UTC

dankboys wrote: post #94

smcl wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the fringe far-right parties have all but disintegrated, but the Tories have certainly drifted rightward and they're essentially untouchable in England in spite of ... well, everything

The Tory party of higher taxes, pride flags covering every government social media account and currently minting coins with the "progressive pride" flag? Sounds like they're about to burn down the Reichstag.

Post by gruturo » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 11:45 AM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #150

slightwinder wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democratic votes need the consent of the loser, not I didn't get my way so let's have another vote. That's only true till the situation changes. If the reason for your vote disappeared, then it's legit to reevaluate your vote. > a third of those voting for independence also want(ed) independence from the EU Which means two third, the majority, voted for the EU? Seems like a legit reason for a new vote.

Anyone can claim the situation has changed, every year. Life does not go backwards. I'm still not clear why that means "once in a generation" becomes "as soon as I can get what I want". > > a third of those voting for independence also want(ed) independence from the EU > Which means two third, the majority, voted for the EU? Seems like a legit reason for a new vote. Has that figure changed dramatically? Even if it ha…