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Scotland starts renewed case for independence

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Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#191

Post by ChildOfChaos »

brigandish wrote: post #29
afavour wrote: post #2

As a Brit that didn’t want Scotland to be independent last time around: good luck to them. Brexit has shown very clearly that Scotland wants to chart a different path to England and IMO they should be allowed to do it. …just be generous to English folks seeking asylum from Tory rule, yeah?

As a Brit who voted for Scottish independence last time, against the wishes of many of my family and those around me, if this happens again then I'll vote against the SNP's wishes. They said it was a once in generation vote. I made my case, as did everyone else, we all had the chance to vote on it, and my side lost. Democratic votes need the consent of the loser, not I didn't get my way so let's have another vote . B…

Exactly and this is the most important thing.

You can't just keep having a vote for no reason at all apart from the fact you didn't win last time and that is all the SNP are doing.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#193

Post by xioxox »

Semaphor wrote: post #56
brigandish wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Brit who voted for Scottish independence last time, against the wishes of many of my family and those around me, if this happens again then I'll vote against the SNP's wishes. They said it was a once in generation vote. I made my case, as did everyone else, we all had the chance to vote on it, and my side lost. Democratic votes need the consent of the loser, not I didn't get my way so let's have another vote . B…

> a third of those voting for independence also want(ed) independence from the EU Do you have a source for that? I only heard of the opposite, but that was mainly Reddit and HN where Europeans are usually pretty pro-EU.

There's this: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2016/may/1...

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#194

Post by mschuster91 »

martindevans wrote: post #103
ivolimmen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. My view on the EU is that it is far from perfect but the fact that we collaborate on a larger scale is necessary and we should only try to enhance it. At some point (500+ years?) we should be one planet, that should the goal. (Sorry; I am out-of-this-world-super-left).

One huge government ruling the entire world sounds out-of-this-world-super dystopian to me!

For what it's worth, the UN could be reformed into such a government. The problem is only that billions of people live in dictatorships of one kind or another, and then the world would suffer under the collective rule of the dictatorships.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#195

Post by Erikun »

4dregress wrote: post #173
Erikun wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest hurdle for Scotland joining the EU arent the requirements, they'd likely pass those without too much issues. The biggest hurdle is probably Spain who wouldn't want to give the Catalan independence movement a good example.

Spain has in the recent past said they would not veto Scotland joining the EU.

A quick google shows you are right and I was wrong.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#196

Post by aembleton »

manmal wrote: post #87
physicsguy wrote: post #46

With hard headed view, I struggle to see that an independent Scotland will be economically able to deal with large cuts to public sector spending that would almost certainly be required. Per capita spending is already higher in Scotland than in the rest of the UK. Scottish companies have debts denominated in pounds. There would almost certainly be capital flight to rUK. Large businesses may relocate. There is no plan…

Would it not be appealing for the English financial sector to move to Scotland if it’s part of the EU?

Haven't they already moved to Dublin?

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#197

Post by Doctor_Fegg »

jakey_bakey wrote: post #81

I've always thought Lonscotdonland would be a great distributed city-state if we could secede with them. Both similar politics, fed up of what the rest of England is doing.

There's absolutely no doubt that Remainia would be a much more prosperous state than Leavistan if the UK were split along the EU referendum lines.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#198

Post by ErikCorry »

cstross wrote: post #37
carnitine wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t most anti-Brexit arguments have direct anti-independence analogues?

Yes, with one key difference: the Brexit campaigners insisted that the UK was being tyrannized and forced to implement policies set in Brussels by the EU (despite having full political representation in making those policy decisions), whereas Scotland is ultimately under UK control -- large elements of public policy are reserved for Westminster, which means control by a succession of governments Scotland hasn't voted…

Scotland hasn't voted for the government since 1955?

2005, largest party in Scotland was Labour, Labour won the UK election. same for 2001, 1997, 1974 (both elections), 1966, 1964.

Until recently Scotland always voted Labour, and Labour didn't always win. But you could say the same about most Northern English cities, that doesn't mean they should form a new country.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#199

Post by brigandish »

cyberpunk wrote: post #99
brigandish wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think having referenda is comparable, then let's have them every 5 years too, on both Scottish independence or rejoining the the Union, and on Brexit or rejoining the EU. It's just the same.

I voted against it as I didn't want to lose my EU membership; which we were told would happen. A few years later, an unrepresentative (to scotland) tory government takes it from us anyway because they were frightened of nigel farage and some middle englanders don't like hearing polish in their local tescos. A lot of my friends who were remain for various reasons seem to be leaning towards independence. 'We were told…

> A few years later, an unrepresentative (to scotland) tory government takes it from us anyway because they were frightened of nigel farage and some middle englanders don't like hearing polish in their local tescos.

You want a referendum because other people you disagree with were given a referendum that you then lost? And you paint this as "tory government takes it from us"?

I also note that millions voted, it'd be hard for them all to be middle Englanders. I just wonder why you need to paint it so far from reality and in a way that only suits you?

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#200

Post by dubeye »

As an English guy living in Scotland, I've followed the debate closely - there is not support to hold a referendum within the current term, despite election pledges.

Everyone I know votes SNP but doesn't really want to deal with a ref right now. Are vaguely disappointed with quality of SNP governance, but overall prefer to vote for a party which is primarily scottish focused and (slightly) to the left of rUK.

Current polling shows 2023 to be unpopular. But if current trends to Yes hold, then 5 to 10 years seems more realistic.

SNP need to juggle this reality with their election pledges.

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