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Scotland starts renewed case for independence

gov.scot

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Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#241

Post by iso1631 »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #157
physicsguy wrote: post #46

With hard headed view, I struggle to see that an independent Scotland will be economically able to deal with large cuts to public sector spending that would almost certainly be required. Per capita spending is already higher in Scotland than in the rest of the UK. Scottish companies have debts denominated in pounds. There would almost certainly be capital flight to rUK. Large businesses may relocate. There is no plan…

> large cuts to public sector spending that would almost certainly be required Why do you think that? We already raise more in taxes than we spend, and right now Scotland is heavily subsidising England.

Citation? I'm going to assume that you are referring to pre-covid.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/government-expenditure-rev...

£13-15b deficit per year

https://fullfact.org/economy/tax-and-spending-scotland/

Just one year that revenue (including north sea oil) was higher than spending as a proportion of the UK. Maybe this year too with oil at a high price.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#242

Post by atlasunshrugged »

WJW wrote: post #154
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the EU need to form a realistic opposition to the U.S.?

Because we don't like a foreign power influencing our policy to their own benefit and our detriment?

Given that the EU has been happy to use America's defense guarantee to subsidize their own defense for a few decades that doesn't exactly ring true. That said, I do understand the need for EU strategic autonomy, especially since the U.S. has been pushing for it since at least the Obama administration but I just found it odd that the U.S. would be lumped in with China. One's influence I'd say is clearly malign, the other often at least tries to be mutually beneficial.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#243

Post by sofixa »

brigandish wrote: post #150
slightwinder wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democratic votes need the consent of the loser, not I didn't get my way so let's have another vote. That's only true till the situation changes. If the reason for your vote disappeared, then it's legit to reevaluate your vote. > a third of those voting for independence also want(ed) independence from the EU Which means two third, the majority, voted for the EU? Seems like a legit reason for a new vote.

Anyone can claim the situation has changed, every year. Life does not go backwards. I'm still not clear why that means "once in a generation" becomes "as soon as I can get what I want". > > a third of those voting for independence also want(ed) independence from the EU > Which means two third, the majority, voted for the EU? Seems like a legit reason for a new vote. Has that figure changed dramatically? Even if it ha…

> Anyone can claim the situation has changed, every year. Life does not go backwards. I'm still not clear why that means "once in a generation" becomes "as soon as I can get what I want".

So for you Brexit, a harder one than what anyone campaigned for ( the hardest one i recall hearing about was "Norway-style"), isn't a change ?

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#245

Post by DocTomoe »

easytiger wrote: post #13
ivolimmen wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Dutch and EU citizen I fully understand their motivation. I also regretted to see England leave the EU.

Will you feel the same way when the EU seeks the end of veto powers (as is currently happening)? https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/european-parliament-a...

Veto powers are a good thing as long as you don't have too many parties involved. With an EU27+++, they are unsustainable (as seen by what has become known as the Visegrad block).

So, as an EU citizen: Let's get rid of these.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#246

Post by dubeye »

kmlx wrote: post #234
dubeye wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The integration is part of the problem. Scotland ends up paying for things like HS2 and other London centric. English regions have same issue arguably, but Scotland alone has some hope to rectify.

> Scotland ends up paying for things like HS2 and other London centric. i find it hard to believe Scottish people don't travel outside of Scotland.

It's not about travel, it's about economic activity. HS2 will funnel economic activity from poorer regions into London. Great for London.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#247

Post by dubeye »

aftergibson wrote: post #232
dubeye wrote: post #200

As an English guy living in Scotland, I've followed the debate closely - there is not support to hold a referendum within the current term, despite election pledges. Everyone I know votes SNP but doesn't really want to deal with a ref right now. Are vaguely disappointed with quality of SNP governance, but overall prefer to vote for a party which is primarily scottish focused and (slightly) to the left of rUK. Current…

I hope this isn’t too off topic but I’ve been living in the year for 12 years and never seen the acronym rUK, it’s been mentioned several times in this thread, what does the r in rUK stand for? (Forgive my ignorance of this is really obvious!).

Rest of UK excluding Scotland.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#248

Post by aspyct »

Go Scotland!

I would certainly be happy to welcome Scotland back into the EU, no questions asked. You have a lovely country, people, culture and mindset. I have always felt more than welcome when visiting Scotland, and I can only wish to return the favor.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#249

Post by DocTomoe »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #129
WJW wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but also Dutch. Yes I would definitely like the EU to abolish veto powers and move to a majority rule. Europeans are too divided and need to band together to form a realistic opposition to the US and China. Veto rule is no way to govern a large group, since you only have to bribe a single member to cripple the whole. This has been known since at least the ancient Greek citystate era.

Why does the EU need to form a realistic opposition to the U.S.?

Because we have learned the US to be an unreliable partner and a source for most of our problems, several times now. It's time to stand on our own feet.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#250

Post by scott_w »

brigandish wrote: post #150
slightwinder wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democratic votes need the consent of the loser, not I didn't get my way so let's have another vote. That's only true till the situation changes. If the reason for your vote disappeared, then it's legit to reevaluate your vote. > a third of those voting for independence also want(ed) independence from the EU Which means two third, the majority, voted for the EU? Seems like a legit reason for a new vote.

Anyone can claim the situation has changed, every year. Life does not go backwards. I'm still not clear why that means "once in a generation" becomes "as soon as I can get what I want". > > a third of those voting for independence also want(ed) independence from the EU > Which means two third, the majority, voted for the EU? Seems like a legit reason for a new vote. Has that figure changed dramatically? Even if it ha…

Because it’s a spectrum. A minor change of policy? Not a solid basis to reevaluate a constitutional referendum.

Completely rewriting huge chunks of your country’s constitution and international relationships? Probably grounds to rethink your own constitution.

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