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Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

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Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#191

Post by tomcam »

datalopers wrote: post #62
tomcam wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only in the United States do we have such protections in place to prevent the government from retaliating against the individual for voicing a critical opinion. Uh no. Here’s a list of people incarcerated by President Obama for criticism of the USA: https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/employee-speech-and-wh...

Leaking classified information entrusted to you is a fair bit different than voicing a critical opinion.

Constitution doesn’t distinguish between them. Did you approve of Daniel Ellsberg being jailed.

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#192

Post by DarkWiiPlayer »

mlyle wrote: post #160
DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I normally think of cancelling as individuals deciding who they want to associate with and any consequences that flow from that. Which seems to land on the acceptable side of the line you are drawing. Yea but lets not forget the context entirely here; we're talking about a walkout at a university, and people are insinuating that there should be some form of punishment as a consequence. You can construct a case wher…

> Yea but lets not forget the context entirely here; we're talking about a walkout at a university, and people are insinuating that there should be some form of punishment as a consequence. I think people are saying that: - The university should repudiate their assertions with the university's words. - The university should strongly seek to enforce its rules when there are harsher actions than a walkout, such as the…

> If you convince everyone who would give someone a job that it's not worth the hassle to hire the super racist dude, that's hardly "avoiding democracy".

If you put in active effort to lobby businesses (I mainly care about larger businesses like google & al. here) to not employ people of certain opinions, then that's definitely punitive action rather than personal consequence. And as I said: specifically punishing people for holding certain opinions, whether it is done through the state or not, is antithetical to freedom of opinion and expression.

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#193

Post by ls15 »

dorgo wrote: post #185
ls15 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't think it applies to free speech. And I don't interpret free speech as I can say whatever I want whenever I want , but I am free to express my opinion . This does not include freedom to attack other people's freedom.

So, "I think other people should not be free" is not covered by free speech?

I don't think that such a statement should have any legal (or other) consequences. It would (kind of) translate to "I don't believe in freedom", but it would not directly attack someone's ability to practice free speech.

Context matters here, I think:

If I said "The president should not be allowed to say this", this would most likely not affect the president's freedom of speech.

If the president said "ls15 should not be allowed to say this", this may more likely affect my ability to express my opinions.

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#194

Post by mlyle »

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #192
mlyle wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yea but lets not forget the context entirely here; we're talking about a walkout at a university, and people are insinuating that there should be some form of punishment as a consequence. I think people are saying that: - The university should repudiate their assertions with the university's words. - The university should strongly seek to enforce its rules when there are harsher actions than a walkout, such as the…

> If you convince everyone who would give someone a job that it's not worth the hassle to hire the super racist dude, that's hardly "avoiding democracy". If you put in active effort to lobby businesses (I mainly care about larger businesses like google & al. here) to not employ people of certain opinions, then that's definitely punitive action rather than personal consequence. And as I said: specifically punishing pe…

Conversely, having lots of super-racist-dudes in positions of power is antithetical to economic freedoms of the groups they're biased against. Paradox of tolerance, et al.

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#195

Post by yorwba »

colordrops wrote: post #184
yorwba wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In response to your other comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31691085 claiming that "No concrete evidence has ever been released that there is mass incarceration in Xinjiang." https://web.archive.org/web/20180921114505/http://www.xj.jcy... > 五年来，全区检察机关共批准逮捕各类刑事犯罪嫌疑人330918人 https://web.archive.org/web/20210811151913/https://www.spp.g... > 2013年至2017年，全国检察机关共批捕各类刑事犯罪嫌疑人453.1万人 Of 4.5 million arrests in all of…

Can't edit my original comment, but I looked it up. Out of 10 million arrests in the US, 2.5 million are black, or 25%, which is double their population. The US also has both the highest prison population in total, and per capita. You better be calling this a genocide of blacks if you aren't a total hypocrite.

No, I'd call it mass incarceration.

But good on you for looking it up. Hopefully you'll also remember to look up stuff about China before commenting in the future.

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#196

Post by tintedfireglass »

momofarm wrote: post #183

looks like educated in west world doesn't make these folks more........democated? maybe one day chinese people will be like Uyghur people, hated by most of the world, force to leave their country, seeking a land to live, and this DID happens before. (Let's remind to people don't know history of china, lots of regime in mainland china are foreigner from outside, ex: 唐(dang), 元(yuan), 清(ching), and its close to be full…

Do you mean "tang" or is it "dang"

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#197

Post by selimthegrim »

nradov wrote: post #13
cjensen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally speaking, the University admin cannot do anything to Chinese students who boo and walk out, and also cannot do anything to white supremacists who boo and walk out. In the US, Students have First Amendment rights to express themselves. The critical point here is that by walking out they did not prevent any speakers from exercising their own First Amendment rights. It does not mean we have to respect them for t…

That's not really correct. The First Amendment doesn't necessarily prevent private schools such as Cornell from disciplining students for legal speech. This is one area where public universities are generally superior. https://campusfreespeechguide.pen.org/the-law/the-basics/

There may be state laws that bind the private schools like in California.
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