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Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

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Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#101

Post by hack_edu »

davidhansen wrote: post #92
mattmanser wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason there's a law against it is because bigots that still exist keep women from attaining equality and that's bad, not the other way around. It is in itself bad. You have a strange moral compass to me. I know it's fun to be laddish when you're at college and uni, but cultural fit can often be a polite way of saying 'Hey, I'm a bigot, women are stupid and I'm not employing them above the level of secretary!'. I…

This is not a political site so I'm not going to debate the merits/drawbacks of outlawing bigotry in hiring practices. But one thing that ought to be pointed out is that free markets tend to punish companies, over the long term, that intentionally deny themselves access to talent due to bigotry. Conversely, companies who acquire talent with rational screening procedures will have a competitive advantage over those wh…

The notion that the long term will harm them is a bit out of scope. Being a startup, a YC one at that, you can assume they see no significant long term for the company anyway, and hope for an acquisition before their idealized startup culture dream is popped.

Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#102

Post by aphyr »

I feel it's worth mentioning that words aren't sexist; communication is. Even really awful words (n.+, for example) can be used both in hurtful and supportive ways. One can't always evaluate the meaning of a word in isolation; the contextual relationship between the writer and reader colors the emotional impact of that use.

Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#106

Post by jeffool »

davedx wrote: post #70
Dylan16807 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does "brogrammer" mean male programmer? No.

How can you be a 'bro' and not be male??

"Bro" has become a word used like "hey guys" in mixed company, or "dude", applied equally to men and women. It's cultural, and like many cultural things, is popularized from chan sites. Starting as mocking the fratguy and Jersey stereotypes, it's now a cultural mockery of itself, like hipsters who hate hipsters.

My brother and cousins are increasingly "brotastic", with tough talk, and repeated high fives (followed by finger pistols). And they didn't even get it from the aforementioned chans; it grows naturally. As scary as that may be to the rest of us.

So, if the term sexist? That's two questions:

1. Is it intended to offend or drive away women? Probably not.

2. Is it offensive to women despite intent? Not for me to answer, as a man. But this is the more important question.

(Sorry, lots of editing. I realized I had a lot more to say. But if they wanted to go for this style, they could've just as easily made the first line say something like "looking for awesome dudes and lady-dudes with awesome skills and awesome personalities to join our awesome startup!" Or something as cheesy to ensure inclusion.)

Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#107

Post by Dylan16807 »

mikeryan wrote: post #38
Dylan16807 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain. I can't find any definition of "brogrammer" that isn't a portmanteau of "bro" and "programmer". And "bro" is not a gender-specific term any more than "milkman".

Seriously? The third google result for "brogrammer" is this: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=brogrammer

1. Programmer who...frat boy...calling everybody "bro"

2. A programmer who looks like, acts like, or is a bro.

3. A popular, cool, or otherwise normal person who has become intrigued by the fun of programming.

4. a bro who somehow learned to program

All of these seem to agree with what I said about it being bro + programmer and not itself about gender.

Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#109

Post by Dylan16807 »

nasmorn wrote: post #59
Dylan16807 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does "brogrammer" mean male programmer? No.

would you accept sissadmin as your job title?

Ignoring the inherent immaturity: As a term of camaraderie I would consider it. The main problem with it is that it looks like it could be "sissy".

Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#110

Post by MostAwesomeDude »

jdminhbg wrote: post #96

There is kind of a weird irony gap going on here -- to me it seems unremarkably obvious that all of the over-the-top language in the posting is tongue-in-cheek. Do people think they actually plan to "get crunk"? Programmers are stereotypically un-hip; the whole "brogrammer" meme is a deliberate poke at the incongruity of someone hunched over their keyboard 14 hours a day, yet drinking Natty Lights while wearing poppe…

"Crunk" literally means being intoxicated from both marijuana and alcohol simultaneously. There's no way this posting was serious about the amount of partying.

If one reads carefully, the ad does claim that non-bros are welcome to apply, but I doubt that anybody else has read that far.

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