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Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

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Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#411

Post by srcreigh »

okeuro49 wrote: post #120
hiq wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone who builds a truly novel technology solution involving hundreds of hours of effort This person should already have enough of a reputation to get a job at many companies, if their work is public enough. What do you suggest for the 99%+ other candidates?

I have over a decade of experience, including driving big technical change at one organisation, and was filtered out by a timed leetcode test. I put together a repository of leetcode practice, as I had a feeling that I would have bad luck on the day. They didn't look at this. The internal recruiter said it kept happening for seniors and people with a lot of experience, but his hands were tied, as the leetcode process…

What was the question?

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#412

Post by uncletaco »

ramesh31 wrote: post #295
lkrubner wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that companies are using leetcode tests for rational reasons goes against everything I've seen and experienced or read about. What I have seen, working at startups for more than 20 years, is irrational, self-destructive behavior, over and over and over again. I've worked with many entrepreneurs who have a few million dollars in the bank, and they have a great idea, but they self-destruct due to two big reaso…

Would love to talk about the dating app world. It's so funny how many founders come into it thinking their "revolutionary matching algorithm" or whatever is going to make the greatest dating app ever. Until you realize that the problem is human nature, and no one wants to be told who they should match with. People want a name, an age, and a face; that's it. And anything that gets in the way of that will lead to your…

And a height.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#413

Post by UncleMeat »

dekhn wrote: post #366
UncleMeat wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google doesn't allow any code on laptops. Everything is done via web IDEs or ssh into a linux machine. So nobody is using brew to obtain dependencies.

You are factually wrong. Not only that, you're conflating several different processes and team rules. Many googlers use brew to install applications on their laptops. This not against policy. Other googlers work with code stored directly on their laptop. There may even be developers who are obtaining deps (for their own builds) from brew. The problem with the brew author is that he had every opportunity to make himse…

It is true that this was the problem with the brew author. Homebrew being part of the typical Google workflow is entirely independent of the situation.

But, as usual for internet discussions, it is fun to rathole on side conversations.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#414

Post by metabagel »

bradlys wrote: post #386
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Considering the normalization of spending hundreds of hours grinding LC questions and the industry built around whiteboard interview preparation, my (n=1) conclusion is that LC interviews is not about technical assessment at all. The “hundreds of hours” grinding LC is largely for juniors without experience. I don’t know any senior engineers who had to grind LeetCode like that for their FAANG interviews.

Disagree. I’ve interviewed quite a few people who are prepping and are senior. Even for those who have been at FAANG before - it’s common to spend multiple months prepping nights and weekends. Taking a full two months off just to study is uncommon. But if you think just doing an hour a day is sufficient - you’re wrong. Most candidates (even senior ones) fail with that level of studying. I know because I’ve talked to…

I knew someone who basically contributed nothing at my company and spent most of his days studying LC. He got an offer and left. I wonder if he is still playing the system or if they are getting any work out of him.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#415

Post by marcus_holmes »

Totally against using LeetCode for interviewing engineers.

However, when asking around about why people who use it do so, I found out it does have one irrefutable advantage: it stops people who can't code at all.

From an engineer's point of view, LeetCode is a complete waste of everyone's time because it measures things that aren't factors in successful engineering (as TFA says).

Bu from the non-technical manager's point of view it's awesome because it gives a single, simple score for "how good is this engineer compared to the other ones?" and people who can't code at all can't complete it.

The non-technical manager's worry when interviewing is that they hire a really expensive employee who can't do the job. But because they don't understand the tech, and the tech is complicated and even expert engineers spend lots of time fighting it to no apparent end, it's really hard to understand if an engineer is incompetent and bullshitting them, or actually good but the problem is hard. Having a nice, easy metric that stops the complete bullshitters from getting in solves a problem for them.

What we need, obviously, is a professional association for software dev, that can then properly test us and verify that we can do the things we say we can do. But the industry has a lot of growing yet to do to get to a point where this is even possible.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#416

Post by UncleMeat »

dekhn wrote: post #369
UncleMeat wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, but almost nobody is running tools on their MBP. So for this sort of thing you'd be using the package manager distributed with glinux. And Google is also a really weird island where tons of tools are custom. You cant use some open source tool for git bisecting because Google doesn't use git. You cant use some open source tool for debugging because borg is a weird custom mess and attaching debuggers requi…

Google uses git. I used to sit next to Junio Hamano, the primary developer of git, and lots of teams that used my team's services were using git. Lots and lots of teams. There was even an extension to use git with google3, which was really nice, but was replaced with a system that used hg instead.

I was very imprecise. Git is used both for OSS stuff as well as some other stuff. But the norm is development in google3 and even if you've got a layer of git commands on top of that, the actual source and change management is being done by citc/piper.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#417

Post by dangus »

weatherlite wrote: post #403
dangus wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can boil this incompetence you describe down even further: employers and their employees don’t want to spend time making their own interview challenges. It’s actually pretty hard and time consuming to come up with a mock scenario and evaluate it, especially when you also have your regular work to do. Leetcode is seen as good enough and all the effort is on the interviewee. The current employees don’t see the pain a…

> It’s actually pretty hard and time consuming to come up with a mock scenario and evaluate it That's a hard problem for some startup, not for FAANGs. They could do hundreds of those and keep switching them quite easily.

Some FAANGS do this. Amazon has/had their own code evaluation system along with a live proctored exercise.

I think most companies are looking for the path of least resistance.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#418

Post by jason2323 »

wtk wrote: post #65

I recently failed interviews at Google and Amazon, exactly at this sort of algorithmic problems. And that's quite far from my client application daily job. I knew it's not my strong side, I would have applied before they approached me otherwise. Now I can tell everyone - I knew quicker than Google, that I'm not the right fit ;)

I have mine at the Brazilian river company tomorrow! I look forward to coming out of that experience with lower self confidence

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#419

Post by jackblemming »

drugstorecowboy wrote: post #400
jboy55 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps there's another collectively shared work experience that also created leetcode style interviews. That is dealing with someone who has a degree, can speak well of what it takes to code, but who cannot code to save their life. I have known more than a dozen such "engineers". That's the reason you code during an interview, I think the emphasis on optimal O(N) is just a set of engineers who don't believe it shoul…

But.. why? Does that reflect anything close to the job they would be doing? Is handicapping someone in every way (You will google it for them), putting them on the spot in an already tense situation and expecting them to code while you watch the way that literally any software job works? This is the insanity to me, "Here, do this contrived task that doesn't represent anything you will be doing... to prove that you ca…

There is a class of engineer who have little performance anxiety by nature. They simply don’t care and are normally blunt types who love algorithms.

And they are, frankly, pretty bad at writing code because they have little empathy for the reader and greatly inflated sense of self worth. They’re the kind to use complicated C++ features or algorithms for little reason. Essentially, smart idiots.

They also believe in silly things like LC being a fair and rational way to evaluate candidates and don’t see the bias at all. “Eugh she’s an ugly woman, I think I’ll give her the LC hard and little help.”

There is another class who realizes how stupid LC is, but are happy to play the game to quickly accumulate power and prestige. They usually have psychopathic tendencies and aren’t great coworkers.

LC is great at hiring these types. Feel free to stick to it if you enjoy having them as coworkers.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#420

Post by lkxijlewlf »

srcreigh wrote: post #411
okeuro49 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have over a decade of experience, including driving big technical change at one organisation, and was filtered out by a timed leetcode test. I put together a repository of leetcode practice, as I had a feeling that I would have bad luck on the day. They didn't look at this. The internal recruiter said it kept happening for seniors and people with a lot of experience, but his hands were tied, as the leetcode process…

What was the question?

Is that relevant?
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