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Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

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Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#291

Post by weezin »

firstSpeaker wrote: post #168
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did - I paid less than I would for a video game, and had as much fun :D

Was it actually useful to improve your skills and you ending up with good solution in the coding round? And how many hours of practice does it usually take to get ok with these type of problems/solutions? :D

It definitely helps to look at solutions explained in detail, and probably has the best rate of return when tech company offers can differ in several hundred thousand dollars per year.

As far as hours of practice it really depends on if you grasp the concepts of types of questions. I got hired at a faang with 2 hard, 13 medium, and 20 easy questions done, but I'm for sure an outlier.

I also did these courses:

https://www.udemy.com/course/js-algorithms-and-data-structur...

https://www.udemy.com/course/coding-interview-bootcamp-algor...

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#292

Post by mattkrause »

tekla wrote: post #266
yonaguska wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your opinion, what's the difference between a leetcoder and a real engineer? In my mind, a real engineer really shines in the non technical aspect of things, like coordination, communication, prioritization, and getting hard questions answered. But that's just me, I'm curious what everyone else's experiences are.

All of that non-technical stuff wont help you when the bridge you signed off on collapses because you had no idea what the blueprint was actually saying. I think a bunch of this "engineers don't actually need to know stuff" comes from a generation that never had to deal with things that might kill people if it fails.

A lone idiot can certainly foul things up, but look at how catastrophes usually unfold.

The right information is usually somewhere in the organization, but it isn’t shared or acted upon appropriately. The Challenger report is pretty clear that it was “an accident rooted in history”. They had a decade of data about O-ring performance in the cold, but it was ignored/overruled in the decision to launch. It certainly wasn’t the case that The New Guy just grabbed some rubber from the wrong shelf and blew up a space shuttle. The Mars Climate Orbiter was lost because of a metric vs imperial mixup, but it wasn’t one dev who capriciously decided to work in inches; there were whole teams that weren’t synced up.

Engineers certainly need to know something, but I’d bet the farm that a team of B+ engineers with good coordination can run circles around “rockstars” that won’t work together.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if a lone idiot can wreak havoc, it's usually a coordination problem further up.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#293

Post by danaris »

brandall10 wrote: post #218
brhsagain wrote: post #148

All of these supposed "flaws" of leetcode are by design. Big companies want people who are smart enough to do the work, but obedient enough to put up with all the bullshit that comes with working at a big company. What person better matches that than someone who's able and willing to study for and pass a tech version of the SAT? Every anti-leetcode article I read is some version of "leetcode is bad because it measure…

Every unicorny startup I've interviewed w/ that had a standard big-tech interview loop (1 LC style screener + final w/ 2-3 rounds of LC + 1 system design) was chock full of ex-big tech engineers and managers, replete with stories about wanting a faster paced / dynamic environment. So yes, that absolutely is who they are recruiting. It probably comes down to no more than believing big tech companies have the very best…

Leetcode doesn't measure "smart and determined to succeed". It measures "has enough extra time and energy to devote to practicing pointless brainteasers for weeks."

In other words, whatever it's intended to do, one of its primary functions in practice is to screen out people who are bright, driven...and poor, working long hours and trying to keep themselves and/or their families going.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#294

Post by foundart »

I worked at a unicorn that did these type of interviews under the premise that they provided a way to reduce bias in the process. That seems reasonable if you believe that qualified engineers can walk in and compete these tasks without having practiced extensively.

I don’t happen to believe that and thus believe it biases in favor of candidates who can devote considerable quantities of free time to preparation.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#295

Post by ramesh31 »

lkrubner wrote: post #249
brhsagain wrote: post #148

All of these supposed "flaws" of leetcode are by design. Big companies want people who are smart enough to do the work, but obedient enough to put up with all the bullshit that comes with working at a big company. What person better matches that than someone who's able and willing to study for and pass a tech version of the SAT? Every anti-leetcode article I read is some version of "leetcode is bad because it measure…

The idea that companies are using leetcode tests for rational reasons goes against everything I've seen and experienced or read about. What I have seen, working at startups for more than 20 years, is irrational, self-destructive behavior, over and over and over again. I've worked with many entrepreneurs who have a few million dollars in the bank, and they have a great idea, but they self-destruct due to two big reaso…

Would love to talk about the dating app world. It's so funny how many founders come into it thinking their "revolutionary matching algorithm" or whatever is going to make the greatest dating app ever. Until you realize that the problem is human nature, and no one wants to be told who they should match with. People want a name, an age, and a face; that's it. And anything that gets in the way of that will lead to your app being ignored.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#296

Post by frostwarrior »

jmartin2683 wrote: post #198
blueflow wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After seeing all the unreliable and buggy software, i think more gatekeeping in IT would probably be beneficial. You wouldn't let someone do surgery on you that hasn't been to medical school.

Good engineers learned their craft long before any school got ahold of them. The really good ones skipped the handholding.

Good engineers are professional engineers. A good engineer does a good job on what's expected on them.

A good engineer does not have to be a leet hacker, in the same way a good architect does not have to be a geeky concrete fanboy.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#297

Post by moduspol »

1ark wrote: post #263
moduspol wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be a fun social experiment if one of the big tech companies replaced the leetcode-style rounds with something arbitrary. Let's say: The "jumping jacks" round. You have to turn your webcam on and do 100 jumping jacks in 60 seconds. Only then will you potentially advance to the next round. The person watching on the other end can evaluate how far over 100 you got, whether or not your form matches best practice, an…

Pretty awesome pace if you can do a 100 in a minute. https://youtu.be/u81LxIlLGnc

Looks like a solid $300k/yr+ software engineer to me. Can you send me his LinkedIn?

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#298

Post by ericbarrett »

sdevonoes wrote: post #180
bigpeopleareold wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't do leetcodes because I am not really into programming puzzles (or parlor tricks :D ), but I roughly tried to do what you described. ~45 minutes it took, deciding in the middle to not worry about the algorithm. Guess I won't get the job ... shrugs.

You won't get the job not because you "didn't worry about the algorithm" but because you didn't ask any questions about the problem; just went straightforward to the implementation. In FAANG interviews that would be a red flag.

In the FAANG interviews I've done you're never allowed to ask questions...? Maybe for clarification of the problem space, but not about the algorithm or the promise of a particular solution.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#299

Post by TrackerFF »

sumeno wrote: post #229
bogwog wrote: post #203

> you can pick a ticket and pair program. Have them review an actual PR. Etc. This seems so obvious. If you pick a leetcode question, there’s always the risk that your candidate has memorized the answer to that particular question. But if you pick an actual bug/PR from your codebase, that problem disappears completely, and you get to see how they would perform on the actual job you’re hiring for. Can anybody think of…

I've never worked somewhere with a codebase simple enough for a new engineer to find and fix a non-trivial bug on their first day. Especially not with someone looking over their shoulder deciding whether to hire them.

Which makes the idea of having someone solve a "trapping rainwater" problem (with O(n) solution) in 20 mins even more ridiculous. It is so far removed from actual work.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#300

Post by LaGrange »

brhsagain wrote: post #148

All of these supposed "flaws" of leetcode are by design. Big companies want people who are smart enough to do the work, but obedient enough to put up with all the bullshit that comes with working at a big company. What person better matches that than someone who's able and willing to study for and pass a tech version of the SAT? Every anti-leetcode article I read is some version of "leetcode is bad because it measure…

The Purpose of a System Is What It Does.

And just because in case of companies that purpose is often unspoken, doesn't mean it doesn't apply. And that's why leetcode and inane interview processes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...

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