Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

Post by ar0 » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 5:11 AM UTC

otikik wrote: post #689

travisgriggs wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn’t there something poeticly sound about this? It’s kind like “the family that eats together stays together” and other platitudes like that. A nation that requires a heavy involvement in the whole process is going to value it more. In the states, we worship money and automation, so we automate it true point where very few are involved. And then we’re surprised when “win at all cost” incidents start to rise over…

It almost guarantees that the electorate won’t be consulted often, though. That’s something you can afford to do every 4 years, but not every 6 months.

Post by theptip » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 5:18 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #365

subsubzero wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, you can't make people up, but this has happened throughout history by unscrupulous actors using either very old people or dead people and "casting votes" in their name for certain candidates. I remember seeing a few examples of this firsthand on twitter in MI where a candidate was over 100 years old(and was dead) and voted!

I'm not sure how this attack even works. You can't make up dead people; you have to know who the dead people are. You can't cast votes for random dead people; they have to be dead people from the precinct you're EJ'ing . I buy that you could get 1-2 votes cast this way, but not how you could cast a material number of them. Meanwhile, getting caught just casting 1 such vote is a guaranteed prison sentence. You can't h…

Post by mr_toad » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 5:26 AM UTC

ronald_raygun wrote: post #240

rayiner wrote: post #30

Americans have a really tough time with the notion of materiality. America is such a big country that, as a matter of statistics, anything that can happen is happening. That doesn’t mean it happens often enough to call into question our basic systems. In this case it’s the right that fails to grasp materiality. Yes, people vote illegally, ballot boxes get stuffed, their is collusion, etc. No, it doesn’t happen often…

> No, it doesn’t happen often enough to undermine the integrity of elections in the aggregate. Nah election fraud matters pretty materially. If it werent for this rigged election, we would have never gotten the 1964 civil rights bill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_13_scandal

Post by mulmen » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 5:36 AM UTC

skissane wrote: post #609

mulmen wrote: post #583

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> Similarly, no doubt voter suppression sometimes happens, but it seems unlikely it happens on a sufficient scale to change national demographic trends in voting, and there is no good evidence that it does. This is where we disagree. There is longstanding evidence for exactly this. It stretches back literally centuries. There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud . There is clear, established evidence of ongoing,…

There is certainly a history in the US of voting suppression targeted at racial minorities, especially African-Americans. (And although I am indeed not an American, my own country also has a history of racial discrimination in voting, also within living memory–the US is less unique in that regard that you seem to think it is.) However, if working class non-Hispanic whites appear to have been switching, over the last…

Post by hattmall » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 5:44 AM UTC

xadhominemx wrote: post #483

telotortium wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously you should only be able to get a mail-in ballot if you request it. But I live in California, and ballots are mailed out to all registered voters. While convenient, it's bonkers to do it at all, let alone in any state that, unlike California, has close elections.

We know it’s not an issue because if people were returning mailed ballots without the knowledge of the intended recipient, there would be a ton of people who would be logged as voting twice (once the mail in ballot and once in person or after requesting and submitting a replacement mail in ballot).