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Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

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Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#471

Post by heretogetout »

notadev wrote: post #293
heretogetout wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone has ID that meets the requirements laid out by voter ID proposals, and sometimes getting those IDs can be extremely expensive. Defenders like to say that the ID is free but when you point out the cost of getting birth certificates and proof of name change (common in marriage) they disappear quick. And if it can't be shown that the number of people prevented from voting is fewer than the number of fraudul…

Opponents of voter ID never seem to address the fact that Americans need a valid drivers license or state ID to do virtually anything as an adult in America. Including, but not at all limited to: - Opening/accessing a bank account - Driving a vehicle - Requesting government assistance - Renting or buying a home - Getting married - Buying tobacco/alcohol/cannabis - Registering children for school - Getting a hotel roo…

Plenty of people haven't done any of those things in years. I don't think my grandmother had any reason to show id during her last few decades of life, and why should a possibly expired id be cause to prevent her from voting?

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#472

Post by happyopossum »

tootie wrote: post #164
padjo wrote: post #37

Just for context it seems The guy he bribed (i.e. the one who actually did the stuffing) was convicted in March 2020. So this isn’t exactly fresh news.

Quoted post unavailable.

> racism

Odd that you'd throw that in there - care to explain how the linked comment is racist?

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#473

Post by BitwiseFool »

InCityDreams wrote: post #457
BitwiseFool wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, things have been feeling more partisan around here lately and I fell into that trap. I went back and realized it was from justice.gov and that changed things.

Where is 'around here, lately'? Where you live? This website? 'Partisan'? Some several people's opinions that don't align with yours? '[T]hings have been feeling[...] What things?

Can I not just comment on an internet forum without having to act like I'm defending a dissertation? Do I have to assume I'm talking to the ghost of Socrates?

>"Where is 'around here, lately'? Where you live? This website?"

Yes. This site. Make a reasonable inference.

>"'Partisan'? Some several people's opinions that don't align with yours?"

This assumes I only sense partisanship when people disagree with me, but there are plenty discussions here on HN bringing up conservatives, progressives, national politics, the recall of the San Francisco DA, etc.. There's a good amount of back-and-forth between those who disagree and I'm not attributing a partisan atmosphere to my opinions being challenged. And before you ask, no, I will not provide you with a list of HN threads with partisan discussions going on in them.

>"'[T]hings have been feeling[...] What things?"

Are you unfamiliar with this expression/phrasing? In this case it is not meant to convey specific examples, it refers to sentiment and atmosphere - a state of mind.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#474

Post by cmurf »

jaywalk wrote: post #43
systemvoltage wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. I've said that before and will say it again: Most of EU requires ID to vote. I will support Republicans that want to do this. It is sad to bring EU in the picture to convince progressives but it is a magic word that somehow brings logic and reason. We shouldn't have to say "They do it in EU, so it must be good". People have stopped thinking for themselves. Anyth…

Quoted post unavailable.

The idea that all voter ID laws are (a) the same (b) inherently good (c) non-discriminatory, is really ignorant.

https://www.texastribune.org/2016/07/20/appeals-court-rules-...

EU countries are split on mail-in ballots. UK, Germany, Spain, Poland, Iceland, and Switzerland where ~90% vote by mail. It's not because of fraud concerns, it's because all EU countries have a national holiday or weekend day for elections. The U.S. does it on a Tuesday which acts as voter suppression. Colorado, similar to Switzerland, mails ballots to every registered voter, and reports very low concerns of election fraud and even lower cases of voter fraud.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#475

Post by giantg2 »

gumby wrote: post #405
jokethrowaway wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true. And that's why we should decentralise power to the most local entity we can (somewhere between a central government and the individual affected by a choice) and have as few elected officials as possible.

The US tried this with their first constitution which lasted barely a decade. And the the macro scale issues these days are significantly larger than what they had to deal with back then.

I was going to say, with the increase in mobility today it could be a nightmare having a patchwork of laws at the municipal level.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#476

Post by WillPostForFood »

tptacek wrote: post #369
WillPostForFood wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just way below the number needed to influence elections. People say this like there are no close elections, or are only talking about Presidential elections (and ignoring Florida 2020), but pretty much every year there are razor thin votes in statewide and congressional races. Good example is Iowa 2nd district in 2020 which was decided by 6 votes: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/democrat-rita-hart-ends-elec... GOP Re…

It makes sense when you write it that way, but not in reality. There is a risk/reward to doing this. Part of your premise is that you can know when an election is going to come down to 6 votes. But in fact Meeks vs. Hart was newsworthy because results like that are incredibly rare. 99 times out of 100, if you try to juke the election, you're putting yourself at pretty grave legal risk and accomplishing absolutely not…

Part of your premise is that you can know when an election is going to come down to 6 votes.

Assuming that's true, you just need to know when it is going to be close, and that only requires polling, not prescience.

https://www.thegazette.com/article/polling-shows-iowa-2nd-di...

Slightly more than two months before Iowans begin voting, polling shows the open-seat race in the U.S. House 2nd District as a dead heat.

In a live poll of 406 likely voters by Harper Polling, Republican state Sen. Mariannette Miller-Meeks and Democrat Rita Hart each had the support of 41 percent of the respondents

So this is exactly the kind of race where a smart cheater would cheat, not trying to get Trump to win California or Biden to win West Virginia. But I assume people who are corrupt and cheat are going to be corrupt and cheat even when it is not in their own interest. And just by chance that will affect other elections happening at the same time.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#478

Post by democratiepart »

Georgelemental wrote: post #290
rayiner wrote: post #30

Americans have a really tough time with the notion of materiality. America is such a big country that, as a matter of statistics, anything that can happen is happening. That doesn’t mean it happens often enough to call into question our basic systems. In this case it’s the right that fails to grasp materiality. Yes, people vote illegally, ballot boxes get stuffed, their is collusion, etc. No, it doesn’t happen often…

Compared to America, many other democracies manage to get by with far less fraud. For example, election fraud is effectively unheard of in France; the system is so robust that even in very close elections there is never any real drama about recounts or such. For a country that considers democracy to be fundamental to its identity, the US's performance is embarrasing in comparison.

There is nothing specific about the French system that cannot be replicated.

You need to be registered on the voter list, show up on election day with your passport or ID card, take a bunch of small papers with candidate names on them, go into a privacy booth to put whichever candidate you want in an envelope, then you walk to the center of the room where the election officers check your passport again, you have to sign your name on the list, and the head of the voting office opens access to a big transparent urn where you drop your envelop.

At the end of the day, the count of the votes is done in public.

I don't remember any history of voting fraud in any kind of election.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#479

Post by kfrzcode »

happyopossum wrote: post #472
tootie wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> racism Odd that you'd throw that in there - care to explain how the linked comment is racist?

There's nothing there; tootie is just slandering
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