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Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

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Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#211

Post by maerF0x0 »

slg wrote: post #125
jaywalk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it doesn’t happen often enough to undermine the integrity of elections in the aggregate. Ridiculous to just throw this out as if it's a concrete fact. Even changing the outcome of a Presidential election doesn't require any kind of sweeping, nationwide fraud campaign. Just enough well-placed ones where the vote will be close enough that the fraud doesn't have to be too large. I'm not saying it has or hasn't hap…

>Even changing the outcome of a Presidential election doesn't require any kind of sweeping, nationwide fraud campaign. Just enough well-placed ones where the vote will be close enough that the fraud doesn't have to be too large. This only looks true when viewed retroactively. It would have taken roughly 80k votes to switch the 2016 election from Trump to Clinton. However people had no idea of that beforehand. That 80…

unsure the exact math here, but certainty isn't the required bar for an investment, just positive EROI .

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#212

Post by nabla9 »

tptacek wrote: post #194

It's weird that you can bribe individual EJ's in Philadelphia like this. In Chicagoland, every polling place has a team of 4-5 judges, and they all have to sign off on the final election result, and all the procedural steps that arrive at that number; every individual vote is recorded in the pollbook. I don't even know how you'd generate fake votes in the first place, even if you bought off all 4 EJs. You can't just…

> Beren took pains to ensure that the number of ballots cast on the machines was a reflection of the number of voters signed into the polling books and the List of Voters. After the polls closed on Election Day, Beren and her associates would falsely certify the results.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#213

Post by AaronM »

astrange wrote: post #57
jaywalk wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It’s because the people who want voter ID also want to make it harder to get an ID and won’t accept student IDs but will accept eg your gun club ID. Banning mail in ballots doesn’t sound like much of a good policy.

Correct. Most progressives would have no issue with voter ID, as long as the states make it very easy and zero cost to get said ID. Try being poor and needing an ID, and not having all of the documentation needed. It's very challenging to do so.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#214

Post by s5300 »

jaywalk wrote: post #43
systemvoltage wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. I've said that before and will say it again: Most of EU requires ID to vote. I will support Republicans that want to do this. It is sad to bring EU in the picture to convince progressives but it is a magic word that somehow brings logic and reason. We shouldn't have to say "They do it in EU, so it must be good". People have stopped thinking for themselves. Anyth…

Quoted post unavailable.

> The only reason to be against voter ID is to make fraud easier

It’s to make sure minorities that have historically been discriminated against with regards to voting actually get to vote, which is their right.

Assuming you’re giving your position in good faith, I’d really enjoy to hear some extrapolation on your side of thought.

Have you ever actually looked at the test they used to give black people to vote? It’s been a while since I’ve read much about the topic, but I think it was going on even into the 1950’s?

As the top of my class, the test was easy to me - but some very slight mindfuckery, as is the point. I guarantee you the lower 50% of my class would not have been able to pass it. & this is a 2010’s level of education against essentially uneducated blacks from close to a century ago.

If you think things like that are acceptable & okay. I cannot believe you & your ideologies would lead to a prosperous society capable of sustaining humanity & advancing technology.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#215

Post by vkou »

systemvoltage wrote: post #25
mercy_dude wrote: post #9

Quoted post unavailable.

For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. I've said that before and will say it again: Most of EU requires ID to vote. I will support Republicans that want to do this. It is sad to bring EU in the picture to convince progressives but it is a magic word that somehow brings logic and reason. We shouldn't have to say "They do it in EU, so it must be good". People have stopped thinking for themselves. Anyth…

> For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws.

For some reason, conservatives are against making voter ID easy to get for people they dislike.

If everyone had easy access to getting eligible ID, progressives would stop opposing insane voter ID laws.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#216

Post by hammock »

daenz wrote: post #31

They make it sound so simple: Bribe the Judge of Elections who oversees everything. Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates. Certify that the fake results are correct. Lie if anybody asks. This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy?

Could it be widespread?

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#217

Post by willcipriano »

javagram wrote: post #66
jaywalk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it doesn’t happen often enough to undermine the integrity of elections in the aggregate. Ridiculous to just throw this out as if it's a concrete fact. Even changing the outcome of a Presidential election doesn't require any kind of sweeping, nationwide fraud campaign. Just enough well-placed ones where the vote will be close enough that the fraud doesn't have to be too large. I'm not saying it has or hasn't hap…

> Even changing the outcome of a Presidential election doesn't require any kind of sweeping, nationwide fraud campaign. Just enough well-placed ones Were that to have happened, analysis of the voting results would show a divergence in results in those “well placed” areas. For a presidential race, there are a lot of eyes on this comparing demographic data with vote totals. For instance, in 2020 there were some allegat…

> Were that to have happened, analysis of the voting results would show a divergence in results in those “well placed” areas.

Why didn't that sort of analysis find fraud in Philadelphia in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018? How are you so certain of its infallibility given it's apparent inability to find fraud like this?

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#218

Post by philjohn »

pyronik19 wrote: post #193
Finnucane wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, it does take more than imagination to actually demonstrate, it requires facts and evidence.

Quoted post unavailable.

I have, it has holes big enough to drive a big rig through, and has been widely panned by people who know about cell phone location tracking.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#219

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

tptacek wrote: post #194

It's weird that you can bribe individual EJ's in Philadelphia like this. In Chicagoland, every polling place has a team of 4-5 judges, and they all have to sign off on the final election result, and all the procedural steps that arrive at that number; every individual vote is recorded in the pollbook. I don't even know how you'd generate fake votes in the first place, even if you bought off all 4 EJs. You can't just…

> I don't even know how you'd generate fake votes in the first place

> You can't just make people up!

> You certainly can't just make up a final tally

> the paper ballots have to match up

It seems you live in an area with auditable physical copies of the poll receipts. Good. That should be the standard.

But 5 states still don't do that: https://www.axios.com/2018/02/16/five-states-without-paper-t...

And I seem to recall things were pretty disheartening nationwide in the early-2000s too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2004_us_voting_machine_pr...

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#220

Post by dsaavy »

mikeyouse wrote: post #76
izzydata wrote: post #7

I wonder if his actions managed to change the outcome of any election.

He was changing on the order of 40 votes at a single precinct for local judgeships in primary elections.. It could have swung things but only for very small races when there's exceptionally low turnout.

Wonder what that small of a change would do for the right location in a Presidential election... Maybe like the year 2000 for Florida where Bush won by just over 500 votes lol.
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