Live data from Hacker News

Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

justice.gov

71–80 of 889 posts

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#71
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're advocating for something like the SAFE Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/2722 So, the Democrats are the racist right-wingers, and Mitch McConnell is the progressive in this story? Note that, on their own, paper ballots don't actually address the attack described in the article, though the bill provides funding for mechanisms that would.

No. I'm advocating a civil discourse in which people evaluate the pros and cons of different approaches without resorting to racial attacks. I'm advocating that people should be encouraged to ask questions, like why does it take so long for the US to count ballots without getting into partisan bullshit.

You brought race into the discussion, not me.

There's nothing in the SAFE act that can be considered partisan, unless you assume that one of the parties is against allowing people to vote. The Republicans in the senate blocked it for two reasons:

- It is impossible to print legible ballots on recycled paper. (The recycled paper requirement in the bill could have been removed in reconciliation, even if this argument is nonsense.)

- Establishing federal standards for election machines and paper ballots would discourage states from establishing redundant standards. (Note that the opponents of the bill didn't make the stronger claim that it would prevent states from establishing stronger standards.)

The bill would provide funding for standardizing best practices around paper ballot counting. That would speed up the count and reduce election fraud.

The bill doesn't touch voter disenfranchisement, except that it includes a small amount of research funding to allow people with disabilities to vote on paper ballots without trusting a computer or divulging their vote to another person (this is currently an open problem).

It was repeatedly proposed by Democrats + fillibustered by Senate Republicans.

I don't see how any honest conversation about voting counting issues in the US can't point out that there are low-tech solutions to the exact issues you're complaining about, that the bill has been written, and that exactly one party has been blocking / fillibustering it for 3+ years (without publicly providing any legitimate complaints about the contents of the bill).

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#72

Quoted post unavailable.

For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. I've said that before and will say it again: Most of EU requires ID to vote. I will support Republicans that want to do this. It is sad to bring EU in the picture to convince progressives but it is a magic word that somehow brings logic and reason. We shouldn't have to say "They do it in EU, so it must be good". People have stopped thinking for themselves. Anyth…

> For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws.

It’s a barrier preventing citizens from exercising constitutional rights. The need isn’t clearly demonstrated to justify the restriction.

Voter ID laws have different outcomes based on economic status. It’s especially difficult for poor people to exercise their rights.

> People have stopped thinking for themselves.

Or maybe someone else thought of something you haven’t. None of us can discover everything individually. Almost everything you know is someone else thinking for you.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#73
post #58
post #2

Quoted post unavailable.

Not at all seeing how this implies widespread voter fraud? It seems highly localised and particular.

I don't see that this particular incident is proof of incidents elsewhere either.

However, pretending that this person is the only person to figure out how to do this is extremely naive. Especially with how long it took to catch him. I don't see why there's anything special about Philadelphia that would make this behavior restricted to that location.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#74
post #68
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates > Why is it so easy? I don't know, it doesn't seem easy to me. I mean, it seems like the result of a ton of long-term planning to implement processes that allow each instance of this to be easy. But the fight against electronic voting machines was fierce, and took a long time. We lost, by the way.

There is no mention of electronic voting machines. Nothing described in this press release would even require electronic voting machines. They cast actual (fraudulent) votes and then falsified the records in the polling books to match.

> The voting machines at each polling station, including in the 39th Ward, 36th Division, generate records in the form of a printed receipt documenting the use of each voting machine...Demuro would add fraudulent votes on the voting machine

Sure there is

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#76
post #7

I wonder if his actions managed to change the outcome of any election.

He was changing on the order of 40 votes at a single precinct for local judgeships in primary elections.. It could have swung things but only for very small races when there's exceptionally low turnout.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#77
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many occurred?

Luckily, Justice Department and FBI will likely have no incentives for investigating that given how they actively positioned themselves in the political debate. So we may never find out.

So then what, if not investigations or evidence, has lead you to believe that this fraud happened?

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#78

Why did it take so damn long to catch this?

It didn't really. The co-conspirator was already convicted years ago. It takes years for a federal case to get on the calendar even after it is fully briefed, because the productivity of the justice system is not evaluated or pursued, and because common law is an idiotic system. This is also why it's been possible for the Attorney General of Texas to be under federal indictment for 7 years without ever seeing a courtroom.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#79

Quoted post unavailable.

For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. I've said that before and will say it again: Most of EU requires ID to vote. I will support Republicans that want to do this. It is sad to bring EU in the picture to convince progressives but it is a magic word that somehow brings logic and reason. We shouldn't have to say "They do it in EU, so it must be good". People have stopped thinking for themselves. Anyth…

I think a lot of progressives would be in favor of voter ID laws if you could ensure it was reasonable for every eligible voter to get their ID. That isn't usually what happens though. Here in Wisconsin when the republican party tried it, their solution to the problem was to make people show up to the DMV and fill out forms for their free ID, then they proceeded to close a bunch of DMVs, conveniently in areas likely to be unfavorable to them.

Progressives do not want to support a system that can be used to suppress voters any more than the current system already does.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#80
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It’s because the people who want voter ID also want to make it harder to get an ID and won’t accept student IDs but will accept eg your gun club ID. Banning mail in ballots doesn’t sound like much of a good policy.

> It’s because the people who want voter ID also want to make it harder to get an ID

BS.

> and won’t accept student IDs.

Nor should they.

> Banning mail in ballots doesn’t sound like much of a good policy.

Why? Do you disagree that fraud is easier with mail-in ballots?

Post reply on HN