Carmakers feel chip crisis easing • Hacker News Board

Re: Carmakers feel chip crisis easing

#241

Post by guyzero » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 6:38 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #229

guyzero wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why aren't dealerships just consignment stores for cars? Presumably because people prefer getting less money now to getting more money later. Also most dealerships essentially "flip" cars (like those people on HGTV flip houses) - they clean them up, do basic service, add a warranty of some sort and that gives them extra margin versus just taking a small fee for handling sale paperwork. Honestly I'd hate to sell a c…

> Also most dealerships essentially "flip" cars (like those people on HGTV flip houses) - they clean them up, do basic service, add a warranty of some sort and that gives them extra margin versus just taking a small fee for handling sale paperwork. To be clear, I meant new car dealerships — the ones that are branded to a particular manufacturer brand (e.g. "Ford dealership", etc.) Why aren't those dealerships just co…

For new car dealerships I think the reason is mostly just historical precedent but much like how movie theater owners make their money by selling popcorn and all the ticket sales go back to the studio, car dealerships make their real money through service and the car sales are often a wash.

Re: Carmakers feel chip crisis easing

#242

Post by johnwalkr » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 7:13 PM UTC

magicalhippo wrote: post #155

jazzyjackson wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am freshly obsessed with the RP2040 chip, last time I checked Digikey had like 90,000 in stock at 1USD a pop. I am really curious to what extent it could be configured to do the job of many of these out-of-stock chips that the car industry is hurting for, perhaps straight up emulate their I/O ?

Keep in mind that microcontrollers is just one of the type of chips that the car industry, and others, are lacking. Supporting ICs like power management/voltage regulators, opamps, ADC/DAC's, motor/bridge drivers, interface ICs like CAN bus drivers have all been massively out of stock. That said, as I understand it, a lot of the automotive microcontrollers are either specialized or they're part of an approved design.…

Qualification of a design takes a lot of time and money, and would need to be at least partially redone to replace a microcontroller. You need to be risk-averse when you sell hundreds of thousands of an expensive product with warrantees, and much more so when human safety is involved. I work in aerospace, not automotive, but I guess the industries are similar in that changing a microcontroller can easily take 1 year of time and 2-20 person-years of effort.

Re: Carmakers feel chip crisis easing

#243

Post by danans » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 7:31 PM UTC

causi wrote: post #173

empyrrhicist wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, driving at 80 vs 70 will also vastly decrease your ICE mileage, it's just less noticeable until you go to fill up.

I mean, driving at 80 vs 70 will also vastly decrease your ICE mileage It definitely increases the drag, but after spending a week driving at 70 the difference in mileage was almost unnoticeable. It helps that I have a small, aerodynamic car that's geared high instead of a truck or blocky SUV.

> after spending a week driving at 70 the difference in mileage was almost unnoticeable.

In dollars, the additional amount you pay to drive an ICE faster is considerable:

https://afdc.energy.gov/conserve/behavior_techniques.html#:~...).

"For light-duty vehicles, for example, every 5 mph you drive over 50 mph is like paying $0.18 more per gallon of gas (based on the price of gas at $2.63 per gallon)."

Even that is a simplification. Air resistance increases exponentially with speed, so the jump in resistance (reduction in efficiency) is much greater from 70-80 than from 50-60.

Also, gas is a lot more expensive now, so the additional $0.18/gal could easily be doubled or tripled at today's prices depending on where you live.

> It helps that I have a small, aerodynamic car that's geared high instead of a truck or blocky SUV.

According to consumer reports, even a very gas miserly Toyota Yaris loses 4mpg going from 65-75mph. It's probably double the efficiency loss if you go to 80mph. Can't cheat physics.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2009/09/tested-spee...

Re: Carmakers feel chip crisis easing

#244

Post by Broken_Hippo » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 8:04 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #180

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it shouldn't work like that. Haggling the price of a car simply shouldn't be something that is done. Every vehicle for sale should have the price listed on it. No dealer should expect more and folks that think it is too much should simply not buy.

> Every vehicle for sale should have the price listed on it. They do. It's called MSRP. You can walk into any dealer in Canada (and presumably the US) and pay it. The price is on the website or the car window. Why do you care if other people are able to haggle for a better deal?

If folks are paying more than that or expected to "trick" people into thinking they are getting a good deal (or ripping off the dealer), this isn't an honest sale. It is a game of "who can trick the other more". The MSRP isn't realistically there to advertise the price of the car.

The reason I'm against it is because it means folks are going to get taken advantage of. In a lot of cases, it is the buyer.

Re: Carmakers feel chip crisis easing

#245

Post by CamperBob2 » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 11:22 PM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #77

agensaequivocum wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I placed an order for a Sienna a couple of months ago. However, it's more of getting put in line for something similar that is allocated to the dealer. The more specific, the longer the wait is.

how about the price? did you get a good price or you had to still pay over MSRP?

It depends on where the vehicle is in its life cycle. New Corvettes, for instance, are frequently custom-ordered. The options the buyer has are:

1) Buy off-the-rack from a local Chevy dealer. For the first couple of years after a major revision, the dealers mark up the cars to ridiculous levels. You will pay out the nose for instant gratification. This used to be an issue for high-end sports cars only, but these days even a Honda Civic customer can expect the same treatment.

2) Order from a local dealer. You typically don't have to pay as much for this, depending on your relationship with the dealer. But it can take a very long time for the dealer to get an allocation slot from the factory, especially for smaller stores that don't sell many Corvettes. At the time they take your order (and your deposit), they may not bother telling you that they don't have an allocation yet. You could wait a year or potentially more.

3) Buy off-the-rack from one of a few massive dealers, typically out of state. The dealer's allocation is based on how many Corvettes they sold in previous years, so some dealers specialize in selling from inventory at MSRP or below to achieve the absolute maximize possible sales volume. You will have to drive the car back home or have it shipped.

3a) A subset of these buyers will use a local dealer to accept "courtesy delivery." This means that the car is custom-ordered from the out-of-state volume dealer and shipped directly from the factory to your local dealer for delivery for a relatively-low fixed fee. Local dealers are about as enthusiastic about this as you'd expect, and many will refuse to participate. These buyers save some money initially, but are low on the totem pole when it comes to scheduling service appointments and getting loaner cars.

For Corvettes in particular, the custom-order options can be combined with delivery at the factory/museum complex in Bowling Green. European cars are sometimes offered this way as well, where you get to drive the car around for a while before it goes on the boat.

Once the car is no longer the hottest new thing on the block, the prices come down for both custom orders and off-the-shelf deals. The same purchase/delivery choices are available, though. Almost everything said about the Corvette purchasing process above applies to new Jeeps and pickups nowadays.

Re: Carmakers feel chip crisis easing

#246

Post by alliao » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 11:54 PM UTC

dmurray wrote: post #127

alliao wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 2000 BMW 318ti beater car, the clear coat is peeling but mechanically fantastic. The crankshaft sensor was causing random misfires which I replaced. Otherwise all stock, it's fantastic and freeing. I can floor it and it doesn't go anywhere. upkeep is cheap, oil change when it asks me to. light compact car i've only done brakes once 6yrs ago and it looks new still... the only downside are the plastic parts wh…

> I can floor it and it doesn't go anywhere. This is a difficult sentence to parse. Shouldn't you want the opposite from a car?

sorry my bad, let me try again, it doesn't go anywhere "unintended". I've driven some cars that are psychopaths, while fun they're most unsuitable as a beater. Minimise risk/cost the whole way is the beater life!

Re: Carmakers feel chip crisis easing

#247

Post by alliao » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 11:57 PM UTC

Auracle wrote: post #224

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High powered vehicles have a tendency to cause sudden acceleration. Sudden acceleration is a contributing factor in many vehicle crashes.

Sudden acceleration has saved me from an accident or two. There are times when it’s better to accelerate out of an something rather than brake.

living my dream! I've been driving for 25yrs now? never got to accelerate out of an accident even once. would've been really cool lol what was the situation like? like people swerving into your path?

Re: Carmakers feel chip crisis easing

#248

Post by walrus01 » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 12:20 AM UTC

okaram wrote: post #203

staticman2 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't show you are getting vastly improved crash safety. Only looking at injury data in the real world would show that. It's my understanding new cars are not significantly safer than cars from 10 years ago.

I haven't found the safety data, but was very surprised when my new car was way cheaper to insure than my old one. I assume the insurance companies have the data. This may not be safer as in better crash resilience, but safer as in you have a backup camera, and side sensors for changing lanes.

I wonder how much of the new car being cheaper to insure was the liability only portion of the insurance vs the comprehensive. How much of your risk is seen as so much greater by insurance companies as likely to be at fault in causing an accident in a ten year old car vs new.

Re: Carmakers feel chip crisis easing

#249

Post by pbourke » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 1:18 AM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #223

pbourke wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, auto insurance policies are split into 3 buckets: collision, comprehensive and liability. Comprehensive kicks in for events which are “not collisions,” so tree falling on the car, theft, etc. You are required to have liability and collision coverage in most states, but comprehensive is optional. People often drop it from their policies to save on the premium. I have tried doing that on one of our vehicles…

No state requires collision. If you've got a rust bucket, no reason to cover your own car.

Oh, good point

Re: Carmakers feel chip crisis easing

#250

Post by namecheapTA » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 4:37 AM UTC

fooker wrote: post #103

namecheapTA wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is the base, it'll just be a form of inflation and get lost pretty soon. Currently 1 hr of fast food labor buys you 2 gallons of gas. That's probably pretty close to what it was in 1996 also.

> That's probably pretty close to what it was in 1996 also. No, this is wrong. Minimum wage in 1996 was around 5$ Per hour and gas was below 1$ per gallon.

Gas was not below $1 a gallon in 1996. Especially not in California. Also, cars weren't getting the mpg they are now. Cost per mile relative to minimum wage probably isn't that far off.. which you can probably see from data that basically everyone is driving as much as ever.. because other than mental sticker shock, it's still fine.