Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 1001 posts

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#391

Post by _ea1k »

samatman wrote: post #211
mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

> Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't)

I like the Tesla connector in the US, but in Europe, I'd argue that CCS2 is objectively superior. They need 3-phase power support and the Tesla connector doesn't support that. They also use a different CCS connector from the US. The CCS2 connector uses a latching mechanism that is similar to the proprietary Tesla one. Its simple and very reliable.

The US CCS1 system uses a dual latching mechanism. The cable and the car each have moving parts that are somewhat complicated. The cable side latch is a common failure point. It makes sense, given the desire to retain backward compatiblity with J1772 L1/L2 chargers, but I don't really think that was worth the tradeoff, tbh.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#392

Post by _ea1k »

mcv wrote: post #299
mrtksn wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible. When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions. Europeans don't trust that the industry will always come up with the best solutions for the user, Americans usually don't trust the government doing something well…

I can imagine that car charging is still too new and fast-moving to enforce a single standard, unlike phone charging, where it's just ridiculous to have 3 separate standards. On the other hand, you're absolutely right that it doesn't help anyone if your car is incompatible with half of the chargers out there. Are adapter cables an option, perhaps?

Yes. Tesla has a simple passthrough adapter for CCS1. Other adapters are also possible.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#393

Post by _ea1k »

gwbas1c wrote: post #263
samatman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

> Legislators deciding who gets to be VHS and who has to be Betamax is bad, actually. They didn't make the decision. It's more like legislators observing that Betamax is failing and deciding that it's in everyone's best interests to tell Sony that they have to adopt VHS instead of creating confusion in the marketplace. > Tesla's connector is nicer Tesla's system only goes up to 400 volts. CCS goes up to 800 volts. Th…

I'm not sure that Tesla's connector is a limiting element there. The Tesla system can also go to higher amperages than CCS, which is an advantage. For example, the F150 Lightning charging rate is hampered by its 400 volt CCS system. It can't do more than 200kw. That's creating a lot of the pressure to move to 800 volt.

Tesla doesn't have a similar limitation and can do 250-300kw on the existing 400-450V cars.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#394

Post by ubermonkey »

horsawlarway wrote: post #147
ubermonkey wrote: post #130

It's just really not clear to me that regulators need to be mandating product design. I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice. Twenty years ago, we really DID have a snarl of competing and proprietary phone ports. It was a mess -- Blackberry chargers didn't work with Palm; most WinMo devices had their own…

This always gets bought up, and it's always wrong. > I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice. They didn't write the law as "you must use USB-C" They wrote the law as "The industry experts need to pick A standard for charging, and all manufacturers should respect that choice" They are welcome to change it…

>they just have to agree and consolidate.

It's still not clear that having this be regulated is better.

We don't have a port problem. We used to have one, but it went away. It sure LOOKS like Apple will, eventually, transition away from Lightning on its own anyway.

So why have regulators weigh in here at all? What's the point? What value is added?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#395

Post by ubermonkey »

DannyBee wrote: post #150
ubermonkey wrote: post #130

It's just really not clear to me that regulators need to be mandating product design. I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice. Twenty years ago, we really DID have a snarl of competing and proprietary phone ports. It was a mess -- Blackberry chargers didn't work with Palm; most WinMo devices had their own…

"I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice." Why? Everything is usb or lightning because people complained, and everyone but apple listened to people. If USB-C is no longer the best thing, rather than complain to 10 companies, and hope they all agree, they will complain to regulators, and hope they agree. W…

I'm really not away of a lot of Apple people complaining about Lightning. I mean, I am one, and lightning doesn't bother me at all and never has.

I don't see a consumer win here, basically. I see overreach.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#396

Post by _ea1k »

bin_bash wrote: post #246
malfist wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is tesla's connector nicer?

It’s a lot smaller, locks into the car while charging, and doesn’t have an extra flap you have to open when using DC fast charging.

The CCS2 standard used in Europe and most of the world locks the cable similarly to Tesla.

The CCS1 standard locks the cable using a little flap that folds down on top of the CCS1 latch to hold it in place. Its every bit as clumsy as it sounds, but it does mean there is a locked cable.

Example CCS1 inlet: http://www.wind-works.org/cms/index.php?id=84&tx_ttnews%5Btt...

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#397

Post by ubermonkey »

dhzhzjsbevs wrote: post #140
ubermonkey wrote: post #130

It's just really not clear to me that regulators need to be mandating product design. I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice. Twenty years ago, we really DID have a snarl of competing and proprietary phone ports. It was a mess -- Blackberry chargers didn't work with Palm; most WinMo devices had their own…

Apples racketeering and monopolistic behavior? I think this is a step over the line for regulators but so is apples behavior for the last decade or two when it comes to repairability. Fuck em.

HN loves to describe Apple as a monopoly, but it really only shows that HN readers don't know the definition of "monopoly."

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#398

Post by monocasa »

mmastrac wrote: post #315
bestouff wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they asked everyone to agree on a standard 10 years ago, but that didn't happen (just because of Apple). So now they forcefully decided.

This is the truth of the matter. Apple has been dragging their feet on switching away from lightning. Why? No idea. It's a much slower standard, and puts the wearing parts in the port instead of the cable. USB-C is designed by committee, sure, but the port itself is better than lightning in nearly every consumer metric there is.

Apple gets a patent license fee on every lightning cord. If they switch to a standard they didn't patent, they lose a revenue stream.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#399

Post by smaryjerry »

mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

Standards are a good thing but I’m not sure that we have reached this point where USB-C is functionally the best. If we could completely eliminate on all other types of connectors on not just phones but computers then I would say it’s time to standardize. Unfortunately on my computer if I want a 4K resolution and frame rate that is way 300 hz then is it even possible that can be done over a USB-C connector? Hopefully some expert can chime in but display port or hdmi 2.1+ or multiple of those cables is what is used typically, and if USB-c worked perfectly why isn’t that already replacing every single port on a computer? Phones will eventually be as fast or faster than the current computers, so why implement a limitation when it feels like phones are still at the baby steps in phone evolution? That is just data transfer and I’m no expert but I’m not certain either than charging has reached it’s final form either. Am I wrong, is the USB-c connector capable of infinite data transfer rate as long as your cable is good enough?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#400

Post by [deleted] »

heretogetout wrote: post #377
tacitusarc wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was unable to find any record of legislation forcing standardization of gas pump form factors. Also, in my experience different pumps operate at different rates. I think the fact that pumps tend to be quite similar is a result of their mechanical nature, where less precision is required.

Check this out: > (f) Every retailer and wholesale purchaser-consumer shall equip all gasoline pumps from which gasoline is dispensed into motor vehicles with a nozzle spout that meets all the following specifications: > (1) The outside diameter of the terminal end shall not be greater than 0.840 inches (2.134 centimeters). > (2) The terminal end shall have a straight section of at least 2.5 inches (6.34 centimeters)…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN