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Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

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Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#401

Post by karaterobot »

jvm___ wrote: post #90
giantg2 wrote: post #14

"SSB claims they want a less time-consuming way of collecting and analysing household consumption statistics in order to inform tax policy, social assistance and child allowance." Aka the more we know about you, the more efficiently we can create policies to control your behavior to our liking.

You're already being tracked by the grocery stores, wouldn't it be better to be tracked by someone who at least tries to have your best interests at heart vs. the grocery industry who just wants to sell you more?

> wouldn't it be better to be tracked by someone who at least tries to have your best interests at heart vs. the grocery industry who just wants to sell you more?

Oh man, if somebody with the power of a state tracked everything I did in order to improve my life, and for no other reason than that, I would love it. Sounds like a guardian angel. Sign me up.

But... what if they didn't care about me very much, never really thought of me at all, and really just saw me as one person among tens of millions? What if instead of helping me, their main motivation was to get re-elected?

And what if the government in power was somebody I actively didn't like, and had even protested against? Maybe I felt they were evil and irresponsible. Would I still want them tracking me and trying to change my behavior?

I can think of people I would want to give that kind of power to, but it's the people I don't know about yet that worry me.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#402

Post by guerrilla »

rglullis wrote: post #396
guerrilla wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They pay profit instead. What's it matter though?

The ability to collect taxes was shorthand for "the right to use force to compel you to do things as they see fit". Amazon can not compel you to buy from them, and Amazon can not throw you in jail if they don't like you as a customer. Mining personal data and using it against the interests of the individual is bad in both cases, but it is far more dangerous when done by the State.

> Amazon can not compel you to buy from them, and Amazon can not throw you in jail if they don't like you as a customer.

Of course they can, by becoming a monopoly and driving all other options for things you need out of business. Also by manipulating you with advertisements and propaganda. Coercion has many forms.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#403

Post by runnerup »

verisimi wrote: post #241
runnerup wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I'd move to 'Individuland'! Where is it? Don't tell me that states have claimed everything and everyone?! Must I accept the authority of government and rule by the worst of us? Why do you accept it? Cos you were born somewhere? Do I have the right to create a new country, and make you a citizen? If not, where does the government's right to do that come from?!? In fact, it has no right - all the pieces of paper they w…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand

Just come with a very small, relatively affordable temporary mercenary force.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#404

Post by amenghra »

nostromo95 wrote: post #400
karencarits wrote: post #178

One should be aware that Norway already has very comprehensive registers and databases about the population. Currently, it has only been a benefit, I think, as it enables detailed quality control of say health care services and high-quality register studies. For example, all health/hospital records of deceased Norwegians are digitalized ten years after death and added to a national register. No way to refuse. In my o…

Invasive to whom ? I'm certainly not going to be feeling outraged by medical records disclosure when I'm dead. Do with me what you will when I'm gone--I care more about my experience when I'm alive.

Hypothetical situation: how would you feel if your medical records and used to calculate health risks for your children/other family members and refuse specific insurances (or make them more expensive)?

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#405

Post by ako »

WanderPanda wrote: post #293
wiz21c wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As said in the article, we already share our data with the supermarket, google, etc and whatever other systems that binds all of them together. In that situation, I'm happy that government has access to the same data because it gives it a way to balance the private sector power. Now what is needed is the ability to opt out.

Wow people really forgot that privacy is all about privacy with respect to the government because they are the ones with the monopoly on violence. It is tragic that people think private firms could ever be as evil as governments

If you consider all the school shootings in the US the claim that government has a monopoly on violence is nonsense. There’s plenty of non governmental violence.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#406

Post by majjam »

stickyricky wrote: post #252
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's kind of exasperating how little people think about the difference between voluntary participation and forced participation It is totally exasperating when folks excuse corporation tracking you as 'voluntary agreement' when the only alternstive to tracking is forgoonf essential services like mobile phones and living like a hermit

Its not difficult to pay with cash and to not enter your phone-number at the register. Paying with cash is a helpful way to budget.

Until they go cashless :(

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#407

Post by rglullis »

guerrilla wrote: post #402
rglullis wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to collect taxes was shorthand for "the right to use force to compel you to do things as they see fit". Amazon can not compel you to buy from them, and Amazon can not throw you in jail if they don't like you as a customer. Mining personal data and using it against the interests of the individual is bad in both cases, but it is far more dangerous when done by the State.

> Amazon can not compel you to buy from them, and Amazon can not throw you in jail if they don't like you as a customer. Of course they can, by becoming a monopoly and driving all other options for things you need out of business. Also by manipulating you with advertisements and propaganda. Coercion has many forms.

Last I checked, it is still illegal to have a monopoly and the government can break a company apart if it starts abusing its power.

Now, who can break the Government apart if it starts abusing its power?

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#408

Post by guerrilla »

rglullis wrote: post #407
guerrilla wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon can not compel you to buy from them, and Amazon can not throw you in jail if they don't like you as a customer. Of course they can, by becoming a monopoly and driving all other options for things you need out of business. Also by manipulating you with advertisements and propaganda. Coercion has many forms.

Last I checked, it is still illegal to have a monopoly and the government can break a company apart if it starts abusing its power. Now, who can break the Government apart if it starts abusing its power?

If you had checked, you'd know monopolies are not illegal. It's discretionary regulation and impotent in many cases. Power comes in many forms.

States fall for many reasons, but primarily causes are war and revolution (which are sometimes the same thing.)

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#409

Post by guerrilla »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #398
guerrilla wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense, healthcare already covers smokers, alcoholics, obese and all kinds of other things.

Depends on who _is_ the government. Once you have the data exactly on how unhealthy someone’s choices are, you can lean their behavior towards better behavior(according to those that want government to help people behave better).

I'm saying it does now in Norway and Sweden and they already have all of our medical records.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#410

Post by vkou »

hp48fan wrote: post #208
vkou wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the other reasons?

I knew a (great) artist who spent almost her whole life in Norway and Sweeden. Shes in her nineties, speaks a half dozen languages, worked for Norwegian public TV. That is to say she's walked in the highest echelons on Nordic society. Talking to her, she'd often bemoan that the prejudice that Nordic societies are very conformist is true. Which is in line with what Ive experienced with Nordics

If I were to look for it, I don't think there's a single country on Earth where I couldn't find a smorgasbord of social conformism that I strongly dislike.

It's a social glue that holds every culture together, and it never has to make much sense.

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