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Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

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Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#351

Post by temptemptemp111 »

cgriswald wrote: post #323
WanderPanda wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow people really forgot that privacy is all about privacy with respect to the government because they are the ones with the monopoly on violence. It is tragic that people think private firms could ever be as evil as governments

The government only has a monopoly on legal violence, but violence is beside the point. (And never mind that a bad government could simply steal the data or compel a corporation to hand it over.) Imagine living in a state where abortion laws now allow individuals to sue other individuals who have had abortions. A corporation could use grocery data to find and sue individuals who are likely to have had an abortion. Th…

No post body was provided.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#352

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

hhjinks wrote: post #238
verisimi wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you agreed to be managed by the government right? Remember when they came round and you signed the contract? To pay 40%+ in taxes? For the ability to vote once every 4-5 years for someone to represent you? You don't? Nor me. Governments presume to have authority over everything in their domain. The belief in the false idea of 'government' by the majority is what sustains their power. It is actually immoral and fr…

You're free to live in the woods if you don't like the deal. You don't get to use any of society's infrastructure if you don't opt in, though. You won't be taxed, of course, since you can't engage with any economic activity within society. I'm sure you could make a nice commune in the wilderness somewhere. Just don't bring anything from society with you, like tools, clothes, food, livestock, seeds. Good luck out ther…

It is an interesting argument, but I think the reality is you don't get to opt-in. You are automatically opted in based on the local jurisdiction and, more importantly, you have no way to opt out beyond Michael Scott's cry 'I declare bankruptcy!'.

You can go to live in a forest. Your obligations to the jurisdiction remain.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#353

Post by agilob »

monkeybutton wrote: post #53
tloriato wrote: post #9

“Hello #3576. You have reached your 1kg monthly limit of natural meat. Please consult the official list for alternatives.”

Or "you've reached your monthly quota of alcohol purchases". Which isn't far fetched at all! In parts of Canada, up into the 50s, you had to bring your permit booklet to buy alcohol from state operated stores where they recorded your purchases: https://www.tvo.org/article/buzzkillers-a-brief-history-of-t...

Dear monkeybutton, you're about to commit a consumptioncrime, a social service worker will visit your household in the next few to days to check if everything is fine with you and your loved ones.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#354

Post by the_only_law »

ceejayoz wrote: post #216
karencarits wrote: post #178

One should be aware that Norway already has very comprehensive registers and databases about the population. Currently, it has only been a benefit, I think, as it enables detailed quality control of say health care services and high-quality register studies. For example, all health/hospital records of deceased Norwegians are digitalized ten years after death and added to a national register. No way to refuse. In my o…

Yep; societally, they've got a very different attitude towards privacy. Everyone's salary is publicly available online. (So's the fact that you looked!) https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40669239

Tbh I’d rather have my salary public than some of the public information out there about me. I’m still dumbfounded I can basically dox people with voting registration records if I know just a few things about them.

I’ve hunted down estranged family members before and I was kind of concerned because I was able to find a ton of information about them I wouldn’t want out on the internet

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#355

Post by jonahbenton »

_-david-_ wrote: post #327
jonahbenton wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

You can shop at small mom and pop shops.

With respect, one can and should try, but in lots of places and for lots of products it can be pretty hard/much more expensive to do.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#356

Post by mdp2021 »

verisimi wrote: post #162
DeathArrow wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you are tracked by both private entities and the state. I don't want to be tracked by anyone, without my explicit consent, which I should be able to withdraw anytime.

But you agreed to be managed by the government right? Remember when they came round and you signed the contract? To pay 40%+ in taxes? For the ability to vote once every 4-5 years for someone to represent you? You don't? Nor me. Governments presume to have authority over everything in their domain. The belief in the false idea of 'government' by the majority is what sustains their power. It is actually immoral and fr…

> You don't? Nor me

Technically (in at least some systems), you do when you ask for residency - when you leave the parent's house to live somewhere defined in the territory, and make that formal. That is the "signature of the contract".

The simile of the "service" holds credit. Of course, do not forget that many other models were drawn in History (e.g.: Hobbes, "better compromise than the insecurity which comes with anarchy", etc).

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#357

Post by verisimi »

philistine wrote: post #281
verisimi wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd move to 'Individuland'! Where is it? Don't tell me that states have claimed everything and everyone?! Must I accept the authority of government and rule by the worst of us? Why do you accept it? Cos you were born somewhere? Do I have the right to create a new country, and make you a citizen? If not, where does the government's right to do that come from?!? In fact, it has no right - all the pieces of paper they w…

At its core, you're fervently asking for a world without irregularities, without flaws. A just world. Our world isn't this way. It is unjust. Where you're born is restrictive on your opportunities, plain and simple. The only way to free yourself from the yoke of the US (I presume you are American) is to renounce your citizenship. Which means you cannot enjoy all that comes with this privilege, like living there. Are…

Does government make justice better or worse? I think most people are fair minded. The state is a tyrant though.

What does it say about us, if are so accepting and defensive of it?

How much money is it ok to forcibly take (tax)? If any is forcibly taken, are you enslaved?

The are individual options are poor. But I'm not going to say the tyranny is 'good', 'right', 'acceptable'.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#358

Post by einherjae »

mdp2021 wrote: post #332
wiz21c wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As said in the article, we already share our data with the supermarket, google, etc and whatever other systems that binds all of them together. In that situation, I'm happy that government has access to the same data because it gives it a way to balance the private sector power. Now what is needed is the ability to opt out.

> As said in the article, we already share The article says that a number of people uses «loyalty programs». It mentions tracking though «debit card», and last time I checked Norwegians still have circulating cash. It does not mention Google, but surely there will be Norwegians that do not share data with it. Let us highlight that surely, some do not share at all. I do not understand, contextually, the idea of «balan…

Cash is available, but very very rare these days. Enough so that using it is an outlier for most people Debit, or mobile payments are the norm, to the point that even kids having a cookie stand will expect mobile payment.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#360

Post by einherjae »

punnerud wrote: post #148
giantg2 wrote: post #14

"SSB claims they want a less time-consuming way of collecting and analysing household consumption statistics in order to inform tax policy, social assistance and child allowance." Aka the more we know about you, the more efficiently we can create policies to control your behavior to our liking.

And SSB in anonymizing and grouping the data before anyone internal can use it for analyzing

They say. For now…
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