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High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

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Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#201

Post by pnutjam »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #96
nonameiguess wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem that simple, given he won a primary in which all of the other candidates promised more money than he did.

I still have no idea how he actually managed to win the primary. None of the Democrats or Progressives I know in real life or online actually liked him. He was doing terribly and then all of the sudden he cinched the nomination in the span of two weeks. I sense there was a lot of back room power-broker deals going on and that was the real reason why so many of his competitors dropped out when they still had a good ch…

Alot of marginalized people were terrified of another term for the last doofus. They didn't want to rock the boat with anyone who was not center of the road and well established.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#202

Post by ribosometronome »

massysett wrote: post #196

This makes no sense at all. Under the Federal Family Education Loan program, the student borrowed from a bank, and the university was paid right away. The government paid the bank in case of default. Under the William D Ford Federal Direct Loan program, the student borrows from the government. The university is paid right away. So this post’s argument, which is that the Direct Loan program made universities get paid…

Yeah, it feels like the author forgot a paragraph then explaining why this switch caused the increase. It's not clear why having a private lender between the gov and schools would keep costs down if the gov is ultimately on the hook for the money either way.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#203

Post by chongli »

dap wrote: post #163
chongli wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money is going into a bottomless pit of administrative and bureaucratic overhead. Universities are caught up in a zero-sum competition for the top students (and athletes). To attract these students they invest in massive infrastructure projects (new buildings and renovations), often with the support of earmarked donations from wealthy alumni. These new facilities must then be staffed with administrators and maint…

> The money is going into a bottomless pit of administrative and bureaucratic overhead. Universities are caught up in a zero-sum competition for the top students (and athletes). To attract these students they invest in massive infrastructure projects (new buildings and renovations), often with the support of earmarked donations from wealthy alumni. These new facilities must then be staffed with administrators and mai…

It's a zero sum game. Bob the student can either attend Charles State or Derek University, not both. If Charles State spends a million dollars trying to attract Bob, Derek U spends a million and a half, and Bob decides to go to Derek U, Charles State has wasted a million dollars. Furthermore, the fancy new aquatics complex at Derek U may have been the deciding factor for Bob but it does nothing to make him better at electrical engineering, his chosen major.

The building itself may have been donated by some magnanimous billionaire, but the water to fill the pools and run the showers, the chlorine and other chemicals, the electricity to run the pumps and keep the lights on, the lifeguards, the cleaning crew, the maintenance crew, the swim team coaches, management, HR staff, and so on are all part of the school's operating costs. It is these costs that are paid for by tuition money.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#204

Post by pnutjam »

sevenf0ur wrote: post #131
lapcat wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's no wonder why the proposal is very unpopular. It's actually quite popular: https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2022/04/18/student...

> Fifth, 29% of respondents don’t want any student loans canceled, which is the single highest of any of the answer choices. I might support 0% interest rates so I guess that might be considered canceling some student loans for all?

Thank you for the course in "how to lie with statistics": 64% of respondents collectively support at least some amount of student loan forgiveness.

So most people support.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#205

Post by secabeen »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #165
readthenotes1 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"State funding for higher education has declined by roughly a quarter, to $7,152 per student enrolled in a public two- or four-year school in 2015, down from $9,489 per student in 1987." The article is not in disagreement with the thought that Free Federal Money displaces other sources. Also, the article does not show why tuition has risen 1200% instead of 30%.

The linked article doesn't say it's constant dollars, that's probably a far bigger change than it looks like. Also, note that the relationship is non-linear: Suppose it really is constant dollars and constant costs and it really costs $10k/quarter/student and look at the numbers: $511/quarter in 1987, $2,848 in 2015--a 30% drop in funding leads to a 557% increase in tuition.

The CPI tuition number is also quite complicated to calculate:

https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/college-tuition.htm

I can't fully tell here how much of this is the non-linear relationship you identified vs BLS not compensating for all financial aid and other reductions to create an actual net student cost.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#206

Post by hfern »

devwastaken wrote: post #192
Agamus wrote: post #24

"The solution is and always has been to cut the fluff from the academies. For context, go add up the salaries the 'student services' area of the expensive school of your choice. Having worked for one such office for ~15 years, the most appalling part was that they are largely antagonistic toward the faculty and mission of the schools. The waste is dizzying." I made the above comment on another thread with a similar t…

I work at a well known public uni. We can get state and federal funding for anything that aligns with democrat political talking points. We cannot get funding for basic tech and projects. We have a program where students design and build actual tech related directly to their degree and future employment, and we have to beg people to fund us. The school nor grants will find us in any way yet we are entirely bound to a…

So it seems that your complaint is that certain things are not funded enough at a university. Why is your conclusion then to defund universities entirely? It seems like a non sequitur.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#207

Post by pnutjam »

willcipriano wrote: post #55
toast0 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If degree holders go on to make wages much higher than those without and many taxes are progressive, a subsidy on degrees will be paid for substantially by those with degrees (who may have had their degrees subsidized), and degree subsidization may have positive ROI for the government in terms of future tax revenue from those who got degrees. If you're worried about administrative and sporting expenses, you could cho…

Here's the problem. I have no formal education and I pay the same rate of tax as a degree holder. Even under this system, I am subsidizing someone who has had considerably more privilege than myself.

It's to your benefit to have educated people around you.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#208

Post by pnutjam »

ryan93 wrote: post #56
thehappypm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a societal good as a whole, so yes, societies should invest in them. Example: not everyone becomes a doctor. But society needs doctors. Having affordable pre-med college programs benefits everyone, even though only doctors directly make income from the program.

Affordable doesn’t mean your plumber pays for it. My brother took pre med classes at a community college for 400 a pop.

Hah, my daughter is a state college student. She needs one class to avoid taking an extra semester with housing costs and all that fun stuff. It's some sort of pre-requisite and her advisor messed up.

It's $600 to take it this summer. No financial aid since she's just taking on CC class.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#209

Post by throwaway0a5e »

michaelt wrote: post #176
the_only_law wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shit I’m fine with keeping stuff if majority of the student body wants to pay for it, but let me opt out. The education system and tangential friends have so far proven the hardest bureaucracy I’ve ever tried to find a way around. I hate that now, when I’m more mature, more experienced, and know exactly what I want from it is the time it’s the most difficult for me to go back.

> Shit I’m fine with keeping stuff if majority of the student body wants to pay for it, but let me opt out. For things like swimming pools and gyms, sure. But some of the new services are things like 'mental health support' - it would be problematic if you'd opted out of mental health support to save $50/month, then you committed suicide.

>But some of the new services are things like 'mental health support' - it would be problematic if you'd opted out of mental health support to save $50/month, then you committed suicide.

This sort of desire to tell people what's good for them is why we can't have nice things. You think you're being reasonable here but there's another well-meaning moron insisting they're being reasonable by preventing students from opting out of the the $50 gym fee, and another well-meaning moron that thinks they're being reasonable by requiring the dining hall have X Y and Z, etc, etc, etc.

In reality what you people are doing is the institutional policy equivalent of littering. One or two people do it and it's fine, we can tolerate that. But everyone does it and the park turns into a dump and the college turns into a flaming pile of money that society cannot afford to keep feeding.

The least crappy outcome is achieved when none of you get your way.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#210

Post by bergenty »

scottcodie wrote: post #184

I often think about the role of universities in the education process. It seems that universities are just profit maximizing entities. They don't care about student's education unless it impacts their reputation or ability to make more money. They give the bare minimum support to teachers to teach as well as bare minimum investment in processes like admissions. Seems like universities are doing exactly what you'd exp…

Universities are centers of research so working towards funding and endowments makes sense. The students are there to learn and be a part of the existing culture. There are plenty of small and community colleges directed totally towards imparting academic knowledge however.
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