Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 201 posts

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#141

Post by Firmwarrior »

pharke wrote: post #114
jayd16 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People do it now, if we're talking about CAD software of an engine model. I'm not sure they're clamoring for more 2d monitors. I think being able to reach into the model in 3d space is probably more natural than mouse clicks and manually moving viewports around.

As someone who has been getting into CAD lately and has several years of experience working on 3D models in Blender, I would very much prefer to be able to walk around the model and make adjustments here and there rather than using keyboard shortcuts and the mouse. More display space in VR should have an emphasis on "space" rather than "display". If we're talking about programming instead, an intuitive way to switch…

Hey dude, nobody's cracked the code on VR UX so far as I know

If you have a good idea, you should prototype it and get it out there (and maybe get a nice buyout in the process..)

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#142

Post by whakim »

ttul wrote: post #89

Apple won’t release this product unless it is mind blowing. If Bloomberg’s reporting is true, then we should all be looking forward to a very cool demo at WWDC and an incredible product some time in 2023. Very few people predicted the iPhone accurately before its launch. And it’s reasonable to say the iPhone blew minds because Apple figured out multitouch AND reduced the latency of the interface to the extend require…

I think the iPhone isn't the only possible comparison here. Sure, the iPhone blew minds, but what about the iPad? Apple Watch? Airpods? Apple TV? None of these are bad devices (in fact, they're all pretty solid) - they're just niche devices and limited in the way the iPhone wasn't/isn't. I'd expect the headset to be similar.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#143

Post by jayd16 »

pharke wrote: post #114
jayd16 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People do it now, if we're talking about CAD software of an engine model. I'm not sure they're clamoring for more 2d monitors. I think being able to reach into the model in 3d space is probably more natural than mouse clicks and manually moving viewports around.

As someone who has been getting into CAD lately and has several years of experience working on 3D models in Blender, I would very much prefer to be able to walk around the model and make adjustments here and there rather than using keyboard shortcuts and the mouse. More display space in VR should have an emphasis on "space" rather than "display". If we're talking about programming instead, an intuitive way to switch…

>I'd also invest in learning how to use a one handed, portable chording keyboard, it'll probably be useful.

We might end up with a phone as the go-to XR keyboard. Would be pretty funny if that evolves into everyone wearing AR glasses with a 90s Nokia sized blackberry keyboard in their pocket.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#144

Post by jayd16 »

treesknees wrote: post #105
null_shift wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fixed base station is a fundamentally different tradeoff for AR vs VR. Base station for AR would be detrimental, as you inherently want to explore and interact with the world around you. For most VR use cases that is not the case, and I can see the argument for the benefits of a base station (higher performance) outweighing the costs (limited movement).

One solution to this for AR is using "fog computing", where your AR device may offload its computation to a node on the local network that's more powerful but also not as far away (in terms of latency) as a cloud server. Perhaps with the continued adoption of UWB 5G, those AR basestations could exist at cell towers or in local establishments - think about a clothing store running fog nodes to allow AR users to visual…

Streaming 4k video per eye per user? Can I get that kind of bandwidth for general wifi, please?

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#145

Post by bin_bash »

null_shift wrote: post #91
qgin wrote: post #77

Have to say I agree with Jony Ive on all of these points. The idea of an AR wearable that is tethered to a fixed base station is so very lame. Why even bother with AR when you can only augment the reality that is in your office or bedroom? Also the eye-view outer display is essential for situations where one person is using the goggles but others aren’t. How unsettling would it be for someone to look at you, be able…

The fixed base station is a fundamentally different tradeoff for AR vs VR. Base station for AR would be detrimental, as you inherently want to explore and interact with the world around you. For most VR use cases that is not the case, and I can see the argument for the benefits of a base station (higher performance) outweighing the costs (limited movement).

If the base station was wireless and doubled as a charger/stand it likely wouldn’t even be a noticeable drawback for most VR use-cases.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#146

Post by onion2k »

Geee wrote: post #30

Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing. Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos wi…

It would be possible to dive into code and see it all at once like an intricate factory. Our brains are capable of navigating very complex environments, but this capability is lost when its viewed through a small window.

People can learn 3D environments by viewing them in a 2D screen very happily, and millions of gamers do exactly that every day. I can still remember my way around the map in GTA 3 about 20 years after I first played it...

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#147

Post by [deleted] »

jayd16 wrote: post #144
treesknees wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One solution to this for AR is using "fog computing", where your AR device may offload its computation to a node on the local network that's more powerful but also not as far away (in terms of latency) as a cloud server. Perhaps with the continued adoption of UWB 5G, those AR basestations could exist at cell towers or in local establishments - think about a clothing store running fog nodes to allow AR users to visual…

Streaming 4k video per eye per user? Can I get that kind of bandwidth for general wifi, please?

[deleted]

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#148

Post by puranjay »

pharke wrote: post #134
puranjay wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But…why? Why would you persist with something that makes you sick even when the enthusiasts admit they use it once or twice a month?

Sorry, those people aren't enthusiasts. There are people that spend 8 hours a day in VR. Hell, there are a lot of people that fall asleep in VR.

Man, if it really was that amazing, you'd see it in the numbers. Facebook acquired Oculus in 2014. Its still a rounding error in terms of revenue in their annual reports.

Personally, I just felt it was gimmicky - try it once or twice for curiosity's sake, then forget about it.

Nothing on VR enthusiasts - I'm sure you have reasons to love it. But as a piece of tech, unless there are drastic improvements, I just don't see it gaining mass adoption.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#149

Post by CamperBob2 »

moistly wrote: post #92

I am eternally surprised that Boeing has not developed augmented reality headsets for its maintenance crew. Overlaying specs and instructions onto the components being serviced would be a godsend for productivity, compliance, and personal safety. Edit: ditto for automotive assembly/repair. Power plant maintenance. Basically all complicated engineering fields could make excellent use of AR.

I'll never be able to find a reference to it, but I distinctly remember AR goggles being used for aircraft maintenance 10-15 years ago, if not farther back than that. It's a very obvious application, and not a new one at all.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#150

Post by marcinzm »

Cook4986 wrote: post #126
thih9 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Productivity is correlated with display size Do you have a source? Anecdotal, I work without external displays and keep one window in focus, this helps my productivity.

Andrews, C., Endert, A. and North, C., 2010, April. Space to think: large high-resolution displays for sensemaking. In Proceedings of the SIGCHI conference on human factors in computing systems (pp. 55-64): https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1753326.1753336?casa_toke... There’s much more. Search “sensemaking” or “immersive analytics” on Scholar. Depth and width of field, achieved via stereoscopy and tracking, is well…

That seems to be describing a single type of task which is not what 95% of time is spent on by professionals in a work environment. This seems akin to a whiteboard session which traditionally is solved by just grabbing a whiteboard for an hour. But then you're not comparing VR to a monitor but VR to a physical whiteboard.
Post reply on HN