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The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

arstechnica.com

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Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#81

Post by kurthr »

layer8 wrote: post #79
Geee wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can turn also turn your head and move around in your room, i.e. your whole room could be full of separate displays, or just pieces of code floating in space. It's not just how much you see at a time, but how easily you can switch context.

Counterpoint: It’s faster to Alt+Tab (or using other keyboard shortcuts) than to move around the room.

Move around a room? I'd compare it to eye motion of 30-60deg, that's a saccade of about 30-40ms. I don't think most fingers can move that fast from the home row, probably more comparable to head motion

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#82

Post by radicaldreamer »

mrfusion wrote: post #67
Geee wrote: post #30

Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing. Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos wi…

Problem is most companies prefer higher headcount than more productive employees.

This is because middle managers need employees to manage.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#83

Post by layer8 »

kurthr wrote: post #81
layer8 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: It’s faster to Alt+Tab (or using other keyboard shortcuts) than to move around the room.

Move around a room? I'd compare it to eye motion of 30-60deg, that's a saccade of about 30-40ms. I don't think most fingers can move that fast from the home row, probably more comparable to head motion

The parent was talking about moving around in a room filled with virtual displays. Regarding eye motion, I already use a screen filling my non-peripheral field-of-view (~120°), so any additional screen would require significant head movement.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#84

Post by aeturnum »

jayd16 wrote: post #63
Geee wrote: post #30

Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing. Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos wi…

I'm bullish on VR but I think the "many floating monitors around a desk" is a bad use case. I mean, you can just alt-tab through windows or desktops as it is. In my mind the real power comes from spatial hand tracking as a new UX paradigm(seeing an interacting with objects in 3d space) and possibly the addition of large displays anywhere a monitor couldn't have feasibly been, (eg, floating in the server room in a cra…

I agree that "floating virtual monitors" isn't much of an improvement over real monitors - but it's an transitional step that you take to experiment with building a UI that's not possible with traditional physical interfaces.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#85

Post by kurthr »

layer8 wrote: post #83
kurthr wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Move around a room? I'd compare it to eye motion of 30-60deg, that's a saccade of about 30-40ms. I don't think most fingers can move that fast from the home row, probably more comparable to head motion

The parent was talking about moving around in a room filled with virtual displays. Regarding eye motion, I already use a screen filling my non-peripheral field-of-view (~120°), so any additional screen would require significant head movement.

You sit with your eyes closer than half the width of your screen? That is either a HUGE screen and/or you sit with eyes less than 14" away, which is at least novel?

Of course you need two of those screens to fill your field of view, unless you have a square screen that goes below your desk, but I'm sure that's available somewhere.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#86

Post by dougmwne »

Geee wrote: post #30

Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing. Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos wi…

I agree that VR/AR is the future of productivity computing, but I think we are a bit far off still, half a decade at least. I have played around with remote desktop apps on the Meta Quest 2 and these are the main challenges I see:

- 4k is not nearly enough. I think we will likely need 8k screens.

- The headsets are not light enough. You need something with all day comfort for work.

- There is still too much eye-strain from the quality of the lenses and the fixed focus.

- Input is still not natural and precise enough. We would need to be able to see our own hands and type with zero latency. Hand-tracked pointing needs to be able to pick up on small subtle finger motion like a mouse or trackpad can

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#87

Post by paulcole »

Geee wrote: post #30

Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing. Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos wi…

> Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos with. The use cases are professional

I hope you’re wrong about this.

I hope there will be a great personal (non-work) use case for the next generation of VR/AR. Something like gaming, watching sports (always have awesome “seats”), movies with friends, maybe map/gps/etc. for when I’m running.

I know there are options for this already. But honestly, I haven’t seen anyone who’s not a dork using VR/AR. I want the version the average person is excited about. I’m ready to plunk down any amount of money Apple wants from me.

If it’s VR/AR for work, count me out. I don’t have any interest in increasing my work productivity lol.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#88

Post by semi-extrinsic »

DangitBobby wrote: post #56
mumblemumble wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd counter that with, why are you worried about computer-time productivity when traveling? If it's for vacation, just unplug. Mixing work and vacation makes both worse. If it's for business, your attention should be on whatever it is that prompted you to travel. Presumably that's face time with people, not grinding away in front of a computer.

Because I'm not talking about vacation, I'm talking about the ability to travel and see family or go somewhere new at any point during the year without needing to take time off to do so. My work is programming, and travel has never been a part of the work equation for me. If workspace arrangements weren't an issue, I could go visit my friends from college this very weekend.

Meh, this is mainly a bad excuse. Even when I'm doing CAD or manipulating large 3D datasets, I can get my work done with just a 14" laptop and a good trackball. There is some reduction in efficiency, but mainly due to scp'ing large files or waiting for the slower CPU. For coding it's not an issue at all, as long as you have your toolchain set up properly.

I find that the high DPI trend has a tendency to limit us unneccesarily more than actually fix anything. It is still common to say max 80 characters per line. In the olden days where that comes from, it would require 640 pixels horizontally. So at 100% scaling you can fit 3 standard terminals side-by-side and fit 60+ lines vertically, what more do you need when you also have multiple workspaces to tab across?

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#89

Post by ttul »

Apple won’t release this product unless it is mind blowing. If Bloomberg’s reporting is true, then we should all be looking forward to a very cool demo at WWDC and an incredible product some time in 2023.

Very few people predicted the iPhone accurately before its launch. And it’s reasonable to say the iPhone blew minds because Apple figured out multitouch AND reduced the latency of the interface to the extend required so that it felt natural to use. If they mail AR in the same way, they will have the next iPhone.

I am bullish on the prospect of this happening.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#90

Post by ttul »

qgin wrote: post #77

Have to say I agree with Jony Ive on all of these points. The idea of an AR wearable that is tethered to a fixed base station is so very lame. Why even bother with AR when you can only augment the reality that is in your office or bedroom? Also the eye-view outer display is essential for situations where one person is using the goggles but others aren’t. How unsettling would it be for someone to look at you, be able…

I believe it’s most likely that Apple will be releasing an untethered device. It would not be Apple if you needed a wire and a separate box.

A 4K display per eye, a powerful and efficient SoC on the latest node, and some really fine industrial design will surely be within Apple’s reach.

Everyone will have to build apps for this thing. If it’s real, it will be every bit as successful as iPhone.

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