Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Proton is trying to become Google without your data

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 185 posts

Re: Proton is trying to become Google without your data

#61

Post by jibcage »

hammock wrote: post #43

Proton is mired in shenanigans. Evidence points to ProtonVPN being a white-labeled version of Nord VPN. Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23571653 and https://archive.is/iZ2l2 (archive of relevant but broken [2] link @ HN thread) Protonmail has its own issues that have been discussed on HN. Source: https://encryp.ch/blog/disturbing-facts-about-protonmail/ Obviously Gmail and such are piped directly into gl…

As someone who works for Proton VPN, I can assure you we do not resell any white label VPN services, and that the people I work with every day are incredibly smart people who truly, deeply care about users’ online privacy.

I’ll concede that this isn’t much better evidence than the links you provided, but that archived site in your comment really doesn’t read like a reputable source of truth, either.

Re: Proton is trying to become Google without your data

#62

Post by charles_kaw »

DashAnimal wrote: post #58
hammock wrote: post #43

Proton is mired in shenanigans. Evidence points to ProtonVPN being a white-labeled version of Nord VPN. Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23571653 and https://archive.is/iZ2l2 (archive of relevant but broken [2] link @ HN thread) Protonmail has its own issues that have been discussed on HN. Source: https://encryp.ch/blog/disturbing-facts-about-protonmail/ Obviously Gmail and such are piped directly into gl…

"Obviously Gmail and such are piped directly into global intelligence databases" Wait --- 'obviously'?!? Do you have any info on this because that is a wild claim.

>Do you have any info on this because that is a wild claim.

Not only has the concept and implementation of automated law enforcement portals been around since the 90s, the Snowden docs revealed that major providers were providing such portals. AND that their inter-datacenter communications were being piped directly into global intelligence databases without.

These portals, NSLs, and other mechanisms have also been codified into law for over a decade, and their existence is extremely well documented as well as reinforced.

It sounds like a wild claim, but unfortunately, it is extremely based in reality. And, it's so well documented that to be ignorant of it at this point is akin to incompetence.

Re: Proton is trying to become Google without your data

#63

Post by ziddoap »

uoaei wrote: post #47
newfonewhodis wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The safety of Protonmail has been discussed many times on HN. Lol what are you talking about specifically?

Probably the whole "oops we actually DO share IP addresses despite our ToS" followed by a rushed revision of the ToS to include that fact, among other recent news stories.

This is such a disingenuous retelling of what happened.

Terms of Service don't trump lawful orders issued by a government. Never have, never will, for any service or company. They were issued a lawful order, did you expect them to just close the company instead?

Whether or not you use Proton before or afterwards is of no matter, but please at least try to be honest with what happened.

Re: Proton is trying to become Google without your data

#64

Post by doliveira »

DashAnimal wrote: post #58
hammock wrote: post #43

Proton is mired in shenanigans. Evidence points to ProtonVPN being a white-labeled version of Nord VPN. Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23571653 and https://archive.is/iZ2l2 (archive of relevant but broken [2] link @ HN thread) Protonmail has its own issues that have been discussed on HN. Source: https://encryp.ch/blog/disturbing-facts-about-protonmail/ Obviously Gmail and such are piped directly into gl…

"Obviously Gmail and such are piped directly into global intelligence databases" Wait --- 'obviously'?!? Do you have any info on this because that is a wild claim.

We've known it for literally a decade now... How can you be ignorant of the whole Snowden docs?

Re: Proton is trying to become Google without your data

#65

Post by [deleted] »

floren wrote: post #30

> The analogy to terrorism is interesting because, during the Bush-era War on Terror, there was a sense of literally anything being justified in the name of stopping terrorism. The US government was secretly spying on its own citizens. Yeah, Wired, they only did the spying during the Bush era... edit: I guess it was less secret after the Bush era > It's even harder to say, look, we've got to accept that some amount o…

[deleted]

Re: Proton is trying to become Google without your data

#66

Post by lvass »

airstrike wrote: post #44
photochemsyn wrote: post #29

This is a rather interesting interview style, it seems as if the interviewer is presenting the viewpoints of the national security state complex ("we need total access to all data to prevent terrorism and child abuse") and of the major tech conglomerates ("competition reduces privacy"), aka Big MAMAA (FAANG is obsolete), but it does provide the interviewee with opportunity to counter those points, so I guess it's a d…

MAGMA is still a better acronym

Using Google and Meta in the acronym sounds wrong. I'd rather MAAMA or MAGFA.

Re: Proton is trying to become Google without your data

#67

Post by [deleted] »

hammock wrote: post #43

Proton is mired in shenanigans. Evidence points to ProtonVPN being a white-labeled version of Nord VPN. Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23571653 and https://archive.is/iZ2l2 (archive of relevant but broken [2] link @ HN thread) Protonmail has its own issues that have been discussed on HN. Source: https://encryp.ch/blog/disturbing-facts-about-protonmail/ Obviously Gmail and such are piped directly into gl…

[deleted]

Re: Proton is trying to become Google without your data

#68

Post by bsder »

floren wrote: post #30

> The analogy to terrorism is interesting because, during the Bush-era War on Terror, there was a sense of literally anything being justified in the name of stopping terrorism. The US government was secretly spying on its own citizens. Yeah, Wired, they only did the spying during the Bush era... edit: I guess it was less secret after the Bush era > It's even harder to say, look, we've got to accept that some amount o…

> It's even harder to say, look, we've got to accept that some amount of child exploitation is going to happen

Except that every big kiddie porn case was cracked by old-fashioned policework--"Get someone inside". And, most of the time, it isn't even that difficult to pull off.

It particularly grinds my gears because the powers that be only trot out kiddie porn when they want to shove legislation down our throats. The rest of the time enforcement against kiddie porn stays heavily underfunded.

Re: Proton is trying to become Google without your data

#69

Post by tediousdemise »

0daystock wrote: post #56

Asserting "private email" is a modern litmus test for someone's technical understanding and capabilities, or lack thereof. Snake oil companies will always hide behind "it's encrypted" and "it's hosted in Switzerland" tropes that mean nothing to anyone who has done a modicum of research. Real privacy is not the result of some product, especially not when its so desperately and obviously shilled.

Couldn't have said it better myself! Privacy is first and foremost a discipline and a practice, just like security. It's a form of self-respect, in my eyes. Some would say it's even a natural human right.

Commoditizing it is a recipe for disaster.

Edit: Expansion of the self-respect tidbit. Lack of privacy enables others to have control over you. Feeling like you are not in control, or actually being controlled by someone (shame, blackmail, etc.) can be very damaging to your mental health. Respect yourself, strive for privacy. You deserve it as much as anyone else.

Re: Proton is trying to become Google without your data

#70

Post by ziddoap »

imwillofficial wrote: post #23

But they'll give your data away if asked.

If asked via lawful court order, yes.

Can you provide me the name of any company who does not comply court orders of the country it operates in and continues to operate freely?

Edit: I thought this was a more than fair question, evidently people do not think so.

Post reply on HN