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I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

wilwheaton.net

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Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#311

Post by notacoward »

throw0101a wrote: post #236

See also Jennette McCurdy of iCarly fame: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY63dB6-Uwk For an idea on how badly she thought about the child stardom, she named her memoir I'm Glad My Mom Died : > Jennette McCurdy was six years old when she had her first acting audition. Her mother’s dream was for her only daughter to become a star, and Jennette would do anything to make her mother happy. So she went along with what M…

> Jennette would do anything to make her mother happy.

This part really struck a chord with me. My mother and I moved from New Zealand to the US when I was 14. I always viewed it as her decision. She always claimed that she had let me make the decision. I don't even remember that, it would be a ridiculous decision to leave to a 14-year-old, and (most topically) even if that had all happened it wouldn't really have been my decision anyway. It couldn't have been. Ages of majority and consent exist for exactly this reason. There's no way a child that age, even a precocious one, could separate their own desires from trying to please a parent. Moving back to the US was obviously her dream not only in the moment but in the whole twelve years since she left my father. What kind of child wouldn't - both consciously and unconsciously - accommodate that? As it is, it took me at least an event-filled decade to realize that I would have chosen to stay if the decision had truly been up to me. It never was.

No child, at least until mid-teens, really makes their own life decisions - except perhaps for the singular case of a child escaping abusive parents. Parents who claim otherwise are usually engaging in vicarious wish fulfillment, and always denying/abdicating their responsibility for those decisions.

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#312

Post by zarzavat »

pvorb wrote: post #25
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #6

Now think how many children suffered the same fate, but we’ll never hear about it because they did not become famous. Reminds me of “dance moms” or “cheer moms”, “football dads”, etc. If you’re a parent, remember not to live your unfulfilled dreams through your children.

You mean like trying to get your kid into programming, which is a bit more common around here?

You should absolutely teach your kid skills, that’s the meaning of education is it not? That’s different from forcing them to work, the difference is the involvement of money.

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#313

Post by Balgair »

irjustin wrote: post #8

Wow Will was such a part of my childhood watching Star Trek. Obviously, he didn't appear often but he was memorable simply because there were so few people as young as him on the show. Sad to hear this all around. This also brought back memories of me being required to play piano growing up. I hated piano, performing (recitals), playing in general. I was terrrribbleee (still am) and was put up in lessons for 12 years…

> What is a healthy amount of pushing vs too much?

David Epstein somewhat tackles this question in Range[0]. The issue come down to the type of 'learning environment' of the activity you are trying to get the kid into.

'Kind Learning Environments' are ones like golf or chess. The rules are clear, the feedback is rapid, standings are knowable, and the skills are uniform. For Kind learning environments, you just grind out the hours. Here you can use Gladwell's 10,000 hours to shine.

'Unkind Learning Environments' are ones like tennis, business, or poker. The rules are murky, the feedback is delayed, standings are at time undiscernible, and the skills are varied. For unkind learning environments, you have to graze on a lot of other disciplines to shine. Just grinding out the hours won't result in great results.

Epstein specifically uses Ospedale della Pietà as an example of greatness in music. He says that concert musicians use the learning styles of Kind environments, while jazz musicians use Unkind styles. A great union of the Kind and Unkind was in Venice at Ospedale della Pietà where female orphans became some of the best classical musicians in history due to the unique factors at the orphanage.

So the answer, per Epstein, to your question is that it depends (sorry!).

Do you want an orchestra music playing child? Use the Kind learning environment techniques of grinding away 10,000 hours.

Do you want a more jazz music playing child? Use the Unkind learning techniques of many other disciplines and getting through the 10,000 hours in fits and spurts.

Epstein's book goes into waaaay better detail than my comment's haphazard and poorly remembered accounting. If you're serious about the question, I'd buy it and read it.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ospedale_della_Piet%C3%A0

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#314

Post by CapricornNoble »

SenHeng wrote: post #223
thematrixturtle wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard of a Chinese/Asian parent forcing the erhu or pipa on their kids though: it's always Western instruments, particularly the violin and piano.

The erhu and pipa were lowly instruments equivalent to guitars of today. The noveau rich are going to want something like the koto. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koto_(instrument)

That instrument always makes me think of this scene from Hero with Jet Li & Donnie Yen:

https://youtu.be/AeeoEpmyb2Y

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#315

Post by jazzythom »

lapcat wrote: post #305
jazzythom wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rich powerful people don't accept that truth, and keep trying to get what they want. But you can't always get what you want. Some people can’t stop trying, it’s involuntary. That 80’s tough love slogan “never, never give up” actually does work, and wealth follows but, made or born, people with that level of obsession are deeply flawed.

Did you intend to reply to me or to Lendal? Because you quoted Lendal and didn't address my point. Also, Wil said "I made the choice to live the rest of my life without her and my dad and my brother in it."

lendal my bad

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#316

Post by 9991 »

sdoering wrote: post #122
divs1210 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ouch. I’m sorry he had to go through that.

In his current book 'Still just a geek' he describes the actual experience in more detail. While listening to him reading his book I was torn between wanting to throw up and wanting to punch something. The cuts on his sisters face in the movie? Actual real cuts. Administered by the crew. Just to summarize one example he describes. It was heart wrenching.

Nobody involved figured out that cutting children's faces was wrong? The 80s must have been a wild time to be alive.

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#317

Post by redshirtrob »

girvo wrote: post #84
nurettin wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I was pushed as a child to play the piano. And I did it for my child. He endured it for a year. He's talented and he's at the beginner's level, but when we observed closely, he didn't want to practise. He only did it when we threatened him with stopping the lessons. So we just let it go. Now we have a piano at the house. He sometimes plays whatever he likes. Maybe he will pick it up later in his life. Maybe I…

My parents were similar (I played trombone, though I was terrible at it. Or I felt I was anyway). One interesting thing, is the thing I am best at, I had to sneak and scrape and fight tooth and nail to do, which was learn to program on our PC: the thing that is my life and career now two decades on. I've been programming my whole life, but all throughout my childhood my parents hated the idea of me spending my time o…

Hello there. That's eerily familiar. For me it was sports (although I was quite good at baseball and soccer) and Turbo Pascal. My parents, especially my Mom, put up a huge resistance to me programming. I had to promise to try out for the HS basketball team (easily my worst sport) to get a computer. I'd been cut the previous two years so of course I barely made the team that time.

My Mom was convinced I was sitting in the computer room playing games. When I told her: "No, I was programming", she asked what I was programming. Of course I told her I was writing a game, as all kids learning to program were. She responded: "See! Games!" as though she'd somehow proven her point.

But, like you, I've made my career from programming and it's treated me quite well for the most part.

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#318

Post by zarzavat »

dandellion wrote: post #288
pvorb wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like trying to get your kid into programming, which is a bit more common around here?

I don't think it's the same thing. My parents signed me up for English classes when I was very young. They made me go twice a week, even when I was tired of school already. It sucked, some times, but it was just two hours a week and it was far from making me miserable or anything like that. It has actually proved to be an extremely valuable skill in my adult life. It's different to make a kid take piano lessons than…

I came from a family of musicians and so my parents wanted me to learn an instrument from a young age, and yes they did force me to practice every day.

In the end, I learned a skill that has given me a lot of enjoyment in my adult life. Personally, the end was worth the means.

Kids spend a lot of time being forced to learn things in school. I didn’t perceive having to practice an instrument each day as worse than having to attend PE class.

Are there counter-examples? As a kid in that sphere I met many other kids who were very good at music. I never met any who hated playing music but I did meet many who were not that interested in the classical music they were playing. Many played other kinds of music in their “free time”.

I’d say it’s fine to teach your kid to be a piano virtuoso, as long as it’s the piano and not (say) the violin or cello, because cello virtuoso is a non-transferable skill, whereas piano can be transferred to whatever genre they eventually end up liking.

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#319

Post by MisterBastahrd »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #265
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of people have severe chronic depression and anxiety. Most of them don't have the resources to get treatment, they don't write memoirs that get republished, they don't end up getting an interview on Access Hollywood to talk about what a shit childhood they had, and they don't have a megaphone to throw their parents under the bus while enriching themselves from the legacy that was only possible because of the…

What he's doing is calling attention to a particular pattern of child abuse that still occurs today.

He's also being hyperbolic in order to sell a book.
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